(upbeat horn music) ♪ ♪ Yeah, the simple things in life ♪ - My guest is local author, Annette Chavez Macias.

Her newest book is "Big Chicas Don't Cry."

Welcome, and thank you for joining us.

- Hello.

Thank you so much for having me.

- So, you've written romance novels under a pen name, Sabrina Sol.

Why a pen name and why for other books and not for this book?

- So, when I first started out wanting to get published, I had always been a big romance reader.

And, I had a friend who was a published romance author.

And, I had reached out to her to give me some tips on how to get started.

She invited me to come to a local romance authors writing group.

I just saw all these women writing romance, and it was just so inspirational.

And, she also had encouraged me to try to get a story published with her publisher.

And, I got accepted.

And so, that's how I got into writing romance.

And, when I was first beginning, my friend used, still uses a pen name, and it just seemed like that was something that most authors did.

And, I just thought it would be kind of fun to create this new persona, this romance author with a different name, and just kind of also keep that part of my life private.

And so, it just seemed a natural fit to go with a pen name.

- You went with a pen name for the romances.

But-?

- Right.

- this kind of-- I mean, this is this book is kind of a romcom, chick-flick kind of story, I think, with a Latino spin, maybe.

But, you chose not to use the pen name with this one.

- So, if you were to categorize my book, according to publishers, it would be considered women's fiction.

- Ohh.

- And, the romance genre is very specific, that at the end of the book, there has to be a happily-ever-after.

And, I knew that's what readers would expect from Sabrina Sol, which was my romance pen name book.

And, because with "Big Chicas Don't Cry," not every character gets a happily-ever-after, I didn't want to disappoint readers who would follow me over from my romance.

So, I wanted to be very purposeful about separating the two.

- Well, that makes sense.

I understand it now.

I don't want to give it away, but it does have a good ending.

I think it was apropos.

How much of this book is found in your life?

- Well, I think it definitely was inspired by my life growing up in a big Mexican American family, because the book follows four cousins who are very close, almost like sisters.

And, I definitely have those relationships with my cousins.

Being Mexican American, it would-- you know, I couldn't not let it influence my writing, even in my romance.

All my heroines are Latina.

And so, this book, I definitely went more into my personal experiences.

The book is fictional, (chuckles) so none of the cousins in the book are actually based off of a real-life cousin!

But, the whole general feel of being in this big Mexican American family and just kind of the different drama that happens sometimes between family members.

Well?

There's drama, but at the end of the day, you're still gonna come together to help each other through hard times.

- Your book takes place in Southern California, specifically Inland Valley.

Why Inland Valley instead of the Inland Empire?

Just curious on that one.

- So, I wanted to set it in a fictional town.

So, I grew up in the Inland Empire, Inland Valley.

I grew up in Ontario, and now I live in Rancho Cucamonga.

And, all of my immediate family on my mom's side all live in this region as well.

So, that's probably why I decided to base the book in the area.

But, I didn't want to do a specific city.

I just decided to make this fictional town and just base it off of the region overall.

So, that's why I called it Inland Valley.

- Because you do make reference, I think in there, one time, to Riverside.

So, you do name some cities that-- - Yeah!

- which tells it's here in Southern California, which to me, as a reader, from the Inland Empire, really recognize a lot of the things.

Right?

But, if people are reading it from other parts of the country or world, might not know that.

So, alright.

Well, let's talk about your characters.

When I started reading the book, I didn't get it right away that each one were telling their own story.

Right?

Each one-- it's their narrative- Right!

- of their world, right?

And so, I didn't-- I'm a little slow on the uptake.

Didn't get that until about the fourth chapter, (laughter) and then went, "Ohh, okay!"

'Cause I kept trying to find out who the narrator was!

Who was talking?

And then, when I saw how you were labeling the chapters, then I'm like, "Okay."

I put two and two together at that point.

Why did you decide to go that route rather than a narrator telling the whole story?

- I think when you're doing first person in a book, it's a deeper point of view, and you really get inside that character's head rather than having a third person narrator.

So, I really was purposeful in that I wanted each cousin to tell her own story.

And, I tried very hard to also make sure each cousin had her own voice.

So, in the book, Erica is the one who likes to use (Annette laughs) Spanish curse words and English curse words, because she's just more emotional that way.

Whereas Gracie, her character is more faithful.

So, she is always talking to God.

And, I just really wanted their voice to be part of the characterization, and use that as a tool to bring out their personalities, as well.

- Yeah!

So, let's just stop with Erica and Gracie.

Let's just deal with them for right now.

Erica has more of a feisty attitude.

She's more of a-?

Little more of a tomboy.

Not really, but she's into sports.

She likes her beer.

She's just a little more feisty.

Right?

- Mm hm!

- And then, Gracie is the teacher.

She's more religious, teaches in a Catholic school.

And...

I like (chuckles) when she writes her notes or writes her thoughts to God.

Right?

She goes, "Oh, God, please let me get through this; blah, blah, blah, blah."

"Oh, God, please don't let me make a fool of myself; blah, blah, blah, blah."

Whereas the other girls will tell their cousins or their friends, "she talks to God."

Although she's close with the other cousins, as well.

Alright.

Tell me a little bit about Selena.

- So, Selena is the cousin who kind of struggles with her...being a Latina because she does not speak Spanish.

And, she doesn't like you know, the Mexican food, or doesn't really connect to her culture as much as the other cousins.

And, she's also in a career and has had relationships where being a Latina has-- she's been having to be judged on that.

And so, I think it's harder for her throughout the book to kind of see where she belongs.

Does she belong with her family?

Does she belong somewhere else?

But, because she is not a Spanish speaker, and her language is more Southern California girl!

(Annette laughs) - And she, as a Latina, is who I kind of related to, because I'm Mexican American.

I don't speak any Spanish, except for a few bad words and a few things that my parents use when they were arguing or something.

So, I have those words, but not much.

And so, sometimes I was called a coconut in school, in middle school and high school, 'cause I was well... you know what coconut is.

Most of my friends were white, not Latinas.

And so, it was kind of an odd place for me finding my way.

And, even now as I do this, I know many people expect me to speak Spanish.

And, my father grew up in Colton, didn't want me speaking Spanish 'cause he didn't want me to be-- to feel the same bigotry that he felt as a little boy.

He wanted me to speak English, and my brother.

And now, looking back, I know he's blamed himself.

And, I wish we would've learned Spanish because it would've opened different doors and I would've understood some of my grandparents or my aunts and uncles better.

Although one side spoke perfect English, the other side was little of both.

So, she's who I related to.

I didn't mean to go on the tangent about me, but that's kind of who I am.

Alright, let's talk about Mari.

- So, Mari is the estranged cousin.

She also is the cousin who, of the four, doesn't really have her own career.

Well, she doesn't have her own career.

She's married to a wealthy lawyer, and her life is where we find her where she's questioning if this is really what she's wanted.

She grew up with not a lot of money, a lot of issues with that.

And, she thought that if she just had money, that all her problems would be solved.

And now, she's discovering that's not the case!

- Right.

- She does speak some Spanish because she's married to a Latino.

So, she does speak Spanish.

So, she's held on to her culture that way.

But, she is not connected to her family as much as she was when she was younger.

And so, her journey is trying to discover herself and how she fits into the family now.

- Of these four ladies, do you have a favorite?

- You know, I-?

It's hard to say (laughs) because I think there's a little bit of me in all of them.

- Mm hm!

- In different ways, I identify with all of them.

If I had to pick, not that she was my favorite, but when I was writing, Erica really came through as the dominant character, as the cousin.

Like you said, she's more feisty.

(laughs) So, her personality is very strong.

But, definitely, there's a piece of me in all four.

- My favorite was probably Mari.

Strangely enough, because I was hoping she'd come to a better place and find her way.

And, I think, also the fact that she's a baker.

I think that's kind of the Mexican culture, too.

She's a cook.

People love her food.

And, I think she just got lost along the way.

But, you know?

And, I like where you-- I don't want to spoil the ending, but I thought it was gonna go one way with her romance, and it didn't.

So, I like how you brought that back to that, because I didn't see it going that way.

So, that was good.

One of the things you do, you weave in some traditions that are, what I probably consider, same as my home, Mexican American home tradition, and one of them is tamales and making them on Christmas Eve.

Does your-?

We made tamales in our-- I didn't.

I only spread the masa!

My mom did all the work, I spread the masa!

(Annette laughs) So, it's not really making tamales when you're just spreading the masa.

But, did you always do it on Christmas Eve?

Was that your family tradition, and is that your family tradition?

- Yes, it is!

That definitely-- it comes from my family.

As long as I can remember, the women in the family gathered in the morning of Christmas Eve, you know, 5:30 in the morning, six o'clock in the morning.

And, we each had our own jobs.

And, I also was a spreader (Lillian laughs) at some point.

One time, a couple years, I was the counter, because we make so many pounds because our family is so big!

So, I had to keep track of how many tamales were going in this pot, and what time did we put them to cook?

Yeah, so that is definitely my family's tradition.

We still do it to this day.

Well, last Christmas, unfortunately, we... (hesitates) Sorry.

(shaky) - It's okay.

That's alright.

(soft voice) Tradition must have changed last year.

You must have lost someone in that tradition.

And so, it made it hard to follow through with your tradition.

- Yes, we lost my grandmother.

And, she was the one who was, you know?

Even though she was 95, (chuckles) she was the one telling us what to do!

- Strong women last a long time, right?

- Yes, yes!

So-?

- And, she was still the boss at 95!

- Yes, she was.

- And, everybody knew it!

- Yes!

That was hard last Christmas, but...

Sorry.

Um?

I'm just glad that we were able to continue the tradition.

- So, moving forward, you'll continue the tradition in making tamales.

And, always on Christmas?

'Cause we didn't make him on Christmas Eve.

It was just too much.

We would make'em another day.

And, we would make 50 to 70 dozen tamales.

Right?

I don't know-?

'Cause everybody then in the neighborhood, as soon as they find out you make tamales, "they" want some and "they" want some!

(Annette laughs) And then, you take'em to your kid's school, and they want some!

And so, the list keeps growing.

Let's talk about the title of your book, "Big Chicas Don't Cry."

Why this title?

- Interestingly enough, it actually was not the original title-- - Oh?

- when I was writing the book.

The title, for me, was gonna be "Making Tamales."

There's a part in the book where Erica or Erica's mom tells her that as long as you start with a good masa, then it doesn't matter what you put in it.

(Lillian chuckles) It's gonna be a good tamale.

And so, I just kind of saw that as a metaphor for life, the foundation that the cousins had because of their family.

So, originally, when I pitched the book for my agent, that was gonna be the title.

And then, when we were gonna go out to submit to publishers, we started having conversations about whether or not to keep the title.

And, there was a concern that-- Well?

One, not everybody knows what a tamale is.

- Right.

- Or have not eaten them, so it kind of limits reference.

But, also, we wanted it to-- the title to be more, this is what you're gonna get in the story.

And, the story was about the cousins.

So, as an author, I'm always thinking of titles, even though I may not have a book to go with it.

And so, I actually had a list of titles for future books that I kept.

So, when we started tossing around different titles, I went to that list, and that title was there.

And, as soon as I saw it, I'm like, "Yes!

This fits.

This is gonna be the title for this book."

Well, I think it's more catchier than the tamale angle.

I would've gotten the tamale angle, but I think you would've narrowed the people that would've really got it.

So, "Big Chicas Don't Cry" is real similar to "Big Girls Don't Cry."

First of all, there's nothing wrong with crying as a big girl, but, [Annette laughing] because we all need to do what we need to do!

But, I liked the title and I think-?

- Thank you.

- it was more catchy.

So, whoever advised you, probably was there!

(Annette laughs) But, it was really still yours, because you had it on your list there.

- Yes!

- Alright.

So, in writing this book, how was it different from you than writing some of your other books?

'Cause I read that you had started this book, then you wrote all these other books, wrote this other stuff, then you kept coming back.

So, tell me a little bit of that journey.

- I had always wanted, ever since I was little, I wanted to be an author.

- Oh!

- I was a big reader, and that just was always something I thought in the back of my mind, wouldn't it be great if I could have a book published one day?

But, I never sat down and tried to write a book.

I did other type of writing.

I was a newspaper reporter for a couple of years.

Then I got into public relations, marketing.

So, I was doing that type of writing.

And then, right before I was gonna turn 40, I just kind of, you know, your midlife crisis or whatever you're in!

You're just kind of reevaluating, you know, and I said, "You know what?

I'm gonna try.

I'm gonna try to be an author."

And, this scene, I had this scene in my head.

I didn't know what the story was gonna be when this scene happened, but I just kept thinking about it; I kept thinking about it.

So, one day-- one night!

Middle of the night, I got up, opened my laptop, and I just wrote out the scene just so I could get it out of my head.

- Yeah.

- And, from there, I just kept going back to it and adding to it.

And, over time, it developed into this story about four cousins.

But, at the same time, I didn't really know what it meant to be an author.

I hadn't taken any craft type of classes.

I wasn't in the book publishing community.

So, when I had reached out to my friend who was the romance author, and so, because of that connection, I got kind of distracted a little bit, and decided, okay, yes, I can do this; I can be a romance author.

But, at the same time, I couldn't get this story, I couldn't put this story away.

It changed here and there.

The names changed.

Some of the different plots changed.

But, the core part of the story about the four cousins and their relationship with each other and with their family was there.

And, in 2012, I think?

No, I'm sorry.

Maybe a little bit after that, I found out about a contest and I decided I want to enter this book.

Instead of a romance book, I want to try; finish this book and get some feedback.

'Cause I wanted to know, is this something or is this trash?

(both laughing) What am I gonna do with this book?

Because of the contest, that's what inspired me to actually focus and finish the book so I could enter the contest.

And, I didn't place- wasn't a finalist or anything- but I did get a lot of great feedback from the judges.

And so, that kind of inspired me to, 'okay, I have something here.

I want to try and get it published.'

And, because I had already been in the publishing industry now for a couple of years, I understood that, okay, as a romance author, there were publishers that I did not need an agent to submit to.

And, I was very fortunate that I was able to get contracts without an agent with these smaller publishers.

But, I knew this book, I wanted to target the bigger publishers.

And, because of that, I needed an agent.

And so, that's kind of, again, what inspired me to just focus on finishing this book and getting it published.

- So, when you submitted this for this contest and you didn't place, what was the feedback you got from some of the judges, and did that help you get onto another journey, another path to keep it going?

- Yes!

So, one of the main-- the most positive feedback was that they could relate to the story.

They could relate to-- they could see themselves in the cousins.

And, they were not Latina judges, for the most part.

So, to me, that told me that I did have something that could be-- that was relatable to a bigger audience than just my friends!

- Right!

- Or, my family!

So-?

Some of the feedback that I got was about one of the characters.

They didn't like her love interest.

They didn't like the way that some things happened with that particular relationship.

So, I went back and I changed some things.

One of the-- some of the feedback was about, again, distinguishing the voices, because there were four main characters.

So, I tried to really focus, like I mentioned before, bringing out the character's personality through their voices so it could be more distinguishable.

So, yes, the feedback definitely helped me work on the story and polish it so it would be ready for me to submit to an agent.

- Okay.

So, being an author is not an easy career.

How was it for you?

You said you always knew you wanted to write.

But, even getting into the romance novels and leaving your PR job or your reporting job and going this route, what do you say to a young Annette that's 18 and maybe has that desire to do that?

What do you say to that youngster?

- I would say, you know, don't be afraid to go after your dream.

Surround yourself with people who are going to support that dream.

And, for me, that was finding the author community.

Not so much because to get a contract, for me to get a contract earlier, because I know I could not have finished this book when I was in my twenties.

I had to experience (chuckles) some things before that.

But, I do wish I would have found, besides my one author friend, I wish I would have discovered the writing community earlier, just because you just find so much inspiration in seeing all these people go after their dreams.

So you want to do it, too.

And then, say-- yes, and you learn stuff from them.

You learn about craft.

You learn about the publishing industry as a whole.

So, I would definitely tell myself, just go for it sooner.

Maybe the book's not gonna be ready for a couple more years!

(Annette and Lillian laugh) But at least you'll also be surrounded by people who are gonna cheerlead for you.

- Right.

So, it's not always a career that's smooth sailing, no bumps along the road.

There's definitely gonna be bumps along the road, right?

- Yes.

- But, stay focused and surround yourself about like-minded people, I guess, that would be your sounding boards and stuff.

- Yes, yes.

And, read a lot.

If you want to be a writer, you want to be a published author, you need to read a lot!

(Annette laughs) - My last question.

I'm always curious of the-- where authors get their titles, and we discussed that, but also their dedication and your dedication in your book.

Can you share who it was dedicated to?

- Oh, yes.

It was dedicated to my grandmother.

(shaky) You're gonna make me cry again!

(laughs) And, my great-grandmother.

So, we called my great-grandmother Wuelita.

So, short for Abuelita, but I put a W in front of it, 'cause when we were little, we couldn't say Abuelita, so we just called her "Wuelita."

And, it just kind of stuck.

And, there is a character in the book named Wuelita.

So, definitely inspired by her.

And then, my grandma?

(chuckles) We actually-- I'm the oldest.

I'm the oldest grandchild, so I called her "Mom."

And then, when the other grandkids came along, she was Grandma Chayo.

'Cause her name is Rosario, so Chayo is the nickname for Rosario.

- Alright, Annette.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you for the book.

It's a fun read.

It's an easy read-!

- Oh, good!

- Which is what I enjoy: an easy read.

I don't want to be thinking; I just want to be entertained.

I would sit outside in my backyard (Annette laughs) with sun tea and drink, and read your book.

And so, I really enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for taking the time to tell our story.

- Oh, thank you so much for having me.

I really enjoyed the talk.

- [Lillian] This program was originally produced for 91.9 KVCR-Radio.

♪ ♪ Yeah, the simple things in life ♪