- Welcome to "Inland Edition" where we have conversations with people who make decisions that affect our everyday lives.

My name is Joe Richardson.

I'm an attorney, an Inland Empire resident and your host.

And today, we're going to chat with California's state treasurer.

The oldest daughter of Chinese immigrants, born and raised in New York, [background music] Fiona Ma is the first woman of color and the first female certified public accountant ever elected to the position of state treasurer.

Not only that, she won more votes than any other treasurer candidate in California's history.

Having begun her career of public service in 1994 by advocating for socially responsible contracting for minorities and women in San Francisco, Fiona went on to serve on the State Assembly and she chaired the Board of Equalization.

She's efficient, she's persevering, and she's resilient.

And, it's time to meet her now.

[gentle upbeat music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - [Joe] Here with California State Treasurer Fiona Ma.

Thank you, and welcome to "Inland Edition."

- Thank you, Joe.

- I am so thrilled that you're here for a lot of reasons.

So, let's get started by asking-?

You know, you got this distinguished career and you're the state treasurer, but getting along the road, was there some aha moment that put you on the path of public service?

Or, is it a bunch of different things that kind of worked together?

- Well, I started out working for one of the big eight accounting firms, and after five years, I quit and started my own practice.

And, I became the president of the Asian Business Association.

So, that was when I was 28 years old, and my job was to advocate for more contract opportunities for women and minority small business owners.

So, that was kind of the aha moment.

I had to go to city hall in San Francisco.

I went to Sacramento to testify, in Washington, DC.

And, I started to understand that people in elected office are making big decisions about where the money goes, about which laws get passed, and regulations, and, you know, competitive processes.

And so, that's really where I said, "I think I wanna be at the table.

"I wanna make those decisions instead of complaining all the time."

So, that's kind of where it started.

And, I started getting more involved in political campaigns.

I started my own club, got appointed to a board, got a part-time job with Senator John Burton, and it just really was, like, called me that I wanted to be in public office and help people and level the playing field- - Right.

- essentially.

- So, you're goin' along this continuum, county board of supervisors, Assembly, board of equalization, tell us something that you took from each of those elected offices that informs what you do now.

- Every level of government is a little bit different, right?

Local board of supervisors in San Francisco is very hands-on.

Your constituents expect you to be at everything and they want you to solve every one of their problems.

Then when you go to the legislature, it's more about policy, about laws.

You have to think about the greater good and what you can do to, you know, to improve the lives of our constituents.

Then at the board of equalization, it was a tax board, and I'm a tax accountant.

So, I was pretty comfortable there.

But, what I loved about that is we can adjudicate tax cases.

So, like a judge, people come, you know, small business owners, mom and pops, and, you know, against the government.

And, you know, who is right, who is trying to skirt the system versus just trying to do the right thing, you know, but for maybe not understanding the laws.

And then, now as state treasurer, I am the banker.

So all of the money comes into my office, about $3.7 trillion.

- Ohh!

- And, I invest the state's idle funds.

I issue all the bonds for the state of California, the UC and the CSU systems.

And then, I also fund and finance affordable housing, hospitals, public transportation, green energy, garbage and recycling, advanced manufacturing.

And then, I sit on CalPERS and CalSTRS, the California Earthquake Authority.

So, essentially anybody that needs or wants money should come and see me!

(Joe laughs) Because I have been around; I know where the pots of money are!

I know, you know, who to call when there's issues.

And, you know, people get frustrated because nobody maybe calls them back or they're waiting for a refund check.

You know, I can help.

And so, this has been a satisfying job so far.

- This is good.

This is satisfying for me, too, 'cause I'm talkin' with the person with the money.

Hey!

This is good!

Summer 2021, you guys, the state of California has a $85 billion budget surplus.

Tell us what that means, not only in terms of, hey, we've made some good decisions presumably because we've got $85 billion in surplus, but what does that mean and what does that not mean in terms of your capabilities, your priorities, and et cetera?

- Yeah.

So, when I was in the legislature, 2008, facing the Great Recession, it was a $40 billion deficit overnight.

And so, it was really difficult to balance the budget.

And everybody, you know, loves their programs and services.

They don't want anything cut.

So, again, COVID kind of brought back those memories again, and I was really surprised 'cause the first year of COVID we had a surplus of about $45 billion.

Then the second year, it was $94 billion.

And, I was kind of surprised.

Like, how do we have such a surplus when everyone is staying home?

Right?

Everything is shut down, all the businesses.

But, back then, personal income taxes were still up, people were still buying and trading stocks and selling property.

Sales taxes?

Everybody stayed in the state and everybody was still shopping online; still buying food, right?

Everyone was you buying RVs and cars.

And so, that really helped our sales taxes.

So, that's the reason.

And then, the tech companies were doing really well.

And so, the economy still was happening, but it was just shifting.

And now, because things have slowed down, interest rates have gone up, the logistics challenges, we are now at a deficit for this year.

And then, also the income taxes, right?

Because of the floods, 99% of Californians have until October 15th to file their taxes.

So, that also deferred a lot of the revenues that came in.

So, we'll have to see what October brings, and hopefully we can generate, you know, bring more businesses back here to California.

I do a lot in terms of economic development, trying to bring the Brightline train here, which is gonna create, you know, hundreds of thousands of construction jobs.

It'll create housing, especially here in the Inland Empire and the High Desert.

And so, that's what I'm always focused on, is how do I create more jobs, bring more revenues, high quality jobs.

Those are the people that are paying the taxes, and, you know, whatever the governor is, you know, mandating e-mobility, for example.

Everybody is coming here for electric vehicle, cars, charging stations, you know, solar batteries, as well as, like, stem cell research.

We passed two statewide initiatives.

We're spending about $6 billion on stem cell research.

So, we are the leaders in the world, and we have scientists and medical professionals coming here, but they need housing.

And so, housing is a crisis here, and because I oversee the affordable housing bonds and the tax credits, I'm very, very active in trying to stimulate and create as much housing as we can with our many partners.

- Give us a "101" on bond financing.

I'm kind of asking this question for my daughter 'cause any time I get a chance to ask questions about money, you know?

So, it's kind of in our DNA, you know, this is how we do and this is how we do, and this is when we borrow, when we don't, or whatever else.

Give us a sense for a 101 on when we borrow, bond financing, versus, "oh, we can pay this out of the surplus", or "we can do this out of the budget this year or next year, over the next three years."

How does that happen?

Because you, as the treasurer, you really are standing at the front of, you know, shaping the bonds, positioning them, for passage, and for administration.

Talk a little bit about that.

- Yeah.

So, bonds are really used for big infrastructure projects, right?

That you can pay over a long period of time.

So, bonds are usually 15 to maybe, you know, could be 35 years.

So, for those big projects like high-speed rail or fixing your streets, your roads, your bridges, that's where we can use bond financing.

So, when you're balancing a budget, right?

There's only two ways to balance a budget.

You either spend less or make more.

- [Joe] Right.

- Right?

And so, if you're not making more and you gotta spend less, well, you gotta figure out how to balance that budget.

And so, bonds are a good way because they are long-term.

They're not right now out-of-pocket.

So, leasing a car.

Right?

You can pay up front for a car or you can lease a car; depends on whether you can afford to put the money out now or you can afford to pay, you know, a longer period of time.

So, that's the same concept with bonds.

- So, it seems like to me that you, as state treasurer, you propose legislation just like you did when you were in the Assembly.

So, tell us about the things that move you to propose legislation related to, you know, the priorities that California has.

- Yeah.

So, the legislators are the ones that author legislation.

So, if I want to propose legislation, I have to work with a legislator and I can sponsor the bill.

So, I'm still very active in sponsoring bills.

So, most of them are related to programs that I have under my jurisdiction, like ScholarShare 529.

Have you opened a ScholarShare 529?

- I had a 529 before.

Daughter's graduated now, but- - Exactly.

- I did a while ago, yeah.

- So, we really encourage parents to open up a ScholarShare 529 to save for their kids' education.

- Oh, gotcha.

- So, we found out that in bankruptcy, the courts can take that money that the parents-- - Ohh.

- have been saving.

So, I sponsored legislation that prohibits in bankruptcy the courts from taking that money because it's really for the children, right?

For the child's education.

They aren't responsible for what the parents are doing.

So, things like that is still, you know, legislation that I still continue to sponsor that improve our programs.

- So, I know there are some projects that you are very proud of, some things that come down from the state through the treasurer's office, and I know CalKIDS is one of 'em.

So, talk about that one, and let's talk about some other ones, too.

- Yeah.

So during the surplus years post-COVID, we had extra money.

And so, the governor and the legislature allocated about a billion dollars to help our young people achieve higher education or certified apprenticeship program.

So, CalKIDS is an amazing program.

It is free money, and we need help getting the message out.

So, every first through 12th grader, basically on free and reduced lunch, will get $500 in their own account in their name.

And, that money is supposed to grow until they go to college or higher education.

If they're a foster youth, they'll get another $500, and if they're homeless, they'll get another $500.

So, that could be $1,500 in a child's savings account.

So, here in San Bernardino County, there are about 287,000 kids- - Wow.

- that are eligible for this money.

Only 13,000 have signed up.

- Wow.

- And, that equates to $137 million that is not being claimed for kids here in this county.

Please go to CalKids.org Parents, sign up your kids and start, you know, watching that money grow.

- Wow, that's fantastic.

So, CalKIDS.

Tell us about some other programs that come down in terms of things that people may not know about, some well-kept secrets.

- Most recently, because some of the hospitals are having a hard time, they were overworked and overloaded during COVID, and the reimbursements for Medicare and Medi-Cal are not covering the cost, there's a number of hospitals that are not doing well right now.

So, we just allocated about $400 million in our distressed hospital funds to help some of these hospitals get back on their feet.

So, you know, government steps in where we need to to provide the services and the programs that the constituents need, and sometimes the budgets don't balance, right?

And, in terms of, you know, the hospital system, some are doing well if they have specialty procedures.

But the ones that are just covering, you know, every day, working poor, people with no insurance, those are the ones that are struggling.

So, that's another program that we are administrating.

- [Joe] What are some of the biggest challenges that you see coming out of your office?

- [Fiona] I think just staying on top of things that are happening in the world, right?

Cybersecurity is always a concern because we take in so much money and we're moving money, right?

We have, you know, like I said, a hundred people that come in every day.

We don't put them on a computer.

We balance to six decimal points.

- Wow.

- And so, every day cybersecurity is something that is, you know, top of mind.

Just trying to help, you know, whether it's hospitals, whether it's the writers, and the actors that have been on the picket line, they're out of unemployment insurance.

You know, is there a way to make sure that they don't lose their apartments or their homes or their cars, right?

So, just trying to figure out how to use the resources in my office to best help and step in whenever there are major problems here in the state.

- Kind of a related question about the state of finance in California, the state of our system.

Where are we strong, and where are we weak?

I hear you saying it's very fluid because it really reacts to, and hopefully gets out ahead of, things that are going on and things that could affect us from a fiscal standpoint.

But, is our financial system-?

What is the state of our financial system?

What's strong about it?

What's weak about it?

You know, those types of things.

- Yeah.

So, you know?

What?

Ten years ago, I think maybe we were like the eighth largest economy, and today we are the fifth, teetering on the fourth largest economy, right?

So, it would be the U.S., China, Japan, and then California, if we were our own nation.

- Wow.

- And, we have been moving up in the ranks because of our entrepreneurs, right?

A lot of people come to this country, this state, because they wanna live the American dream.

They work hard.

We have Silicon Valley.

We have, like I said, all the medical professionals now.

We have the actors.

We have agriculture.

We're the biggest ag-producing state.

So, that's what makes California special, is our diversity, our entrepreneurs.

And, it is really up to our elected officials to try not to stifle that ingenuity.

California is highly dependent on personal income tax, corporate income tax, and sales taxes.

- That makes up about 90% of our general fund.

- Really?

Wow.

- So, if people are not making money, they're not, you know, getting bonuses, stock options, they're not selling property and stocks, and not able to spend, right?

For things, for sales taxes, that's where we kind of take a hit.

So, we have to always stimulate the economy, make sure we keep our high net worth individuals here, bring companies here, you know, create incentives to make sure that we are attracting talented people.

You know, that's what I do, is try to be that ambassador.

You know?

Welcome people, thank people.

I go around the state and do a lot of tours and just better understand what they're doing and just kind of, you know, thank them 'cause it's not easy to do business here in California sometimes.

- That's great.

What are the things that you're most proud of as treasurer?

- Kind of diversifying my office.

I think if you look at the people that we have, it's like the United Nations.

We created a BIPOC pool for developers because that was kind of a missing area, that people that are developing housing in neighborhoods don't look like the people that are developing.

I have made sure that our underwriters for our bonds are diversified.

And, we give everyone a little skin-in-the-game so that they're interested.

I don't favor one company or another.

We've been putting a lot of money into local community banks so that they can lend out more money.

This is especially important when there's a storm or a wildfire that we get money into those banks through a time deposit program.

I just always try to think about the whole state.

It doesn't matter whether it's the rule or whether it's the, you know, the urban cities.

Everybody needs resources.

They need good schools.

They need good hospitals.

They need housing.

And so, I think that's what I'm most proud of.

- Wonderful.

So, let's talk about your wish list.

The things that you would-?

And, you know?

And, I'm looking at it through the window that often California is a leader and creates templates that are then replicated nationwide, if not worldwide.

Talk about your wish list in terms of what you would like to see California accomplish, the treasurer's role in getting that accomplished, and give us the playing field on what's around the corner and where we're going.

- I think housing is right now a crisis.

And so, I'm doing my part on the affordable side for very low and extremely low-income folks.

But, we have a whole middle class that cannot afford to buy a house, for example, or to save enough money to move out of an apartment.

California embarked on a new program for free down payment assistance for first-time, low-income home buyers.

So, that is called a Dream For All program.

So, we're giving up to 20% of the cost of a house with no fees up front, (Joe whistles amazement) and the state recoups the money back when the homeowner sells their property or refinances.

It was so popular, the program opened and closed in two weeks.

- Wow.

- So, the governor has put in more money in this budget so that we can allow more tenants to be able to become homeowners because that's how you build equity.

We put money into our ADU programs, our accessory dwelling units, giving $40,000 in grants to allow people to build a unit in their backyard or within their homes to alleviate the housing crisis.

But, also to keep those homeowners in their house with a little bit of extra income, right?

I mean, these are things that California is thinking outside-the-box and trying to alleviate and decrease that equity gap.

So, I hope we can continue to do more of that.

Agriculture: I'm a big agriculture supporter.

I've done about 200 tours.

We produce about 400 different products.

And, if you plow over ag land, it will never go back to ag land.

And, given COVID, we saw how we really suffered when we did not have manufacturing here.

That we were dependent on other states, other nations for our PPP or our vaccine.

So, we need to keep agriculture growing.

I appreciate and love that we have the freshest fruits, nuts, and vegetables that people trust here in California and the world.

So, I hope that we are gonna continue to help our farmers stay in business 'cause that's not an easy business, as well.

Creating more jobs, making sure that we welcome different industries here and people, but then also education.

Making sure that our educational system is affordable and attainable to more people versus less people.

It's getting more and more expensive.

Can we do something about alleviating student loan debt for people who are here in California who perhaps are committed to working in government or education, you know, like the Obama plan.

You know, after 10 years, we can help, wipe out their student loan debt if they commit to certain industries that we are having a hard time filling.

- So, I wanna ask how you deal with tough moments.

You know, give us some inspiration here because we can all have tough moments individually.

Often, I would imagine, because your job can change on a dime because of a flood, because of a fire, because of some other kind of natural disaster.

How do you deal with tough moments in your life, in your career in a way that helps you to have the perspective you need?

- Yeah.

I have a big network of people, and professionals and experts that I can call when I don't understand an issue, and I can lean on them when we're stuck or, you know, I need good ideas.

And so, I think that's-- gives me strength in those tough moments, is being able to call more people versus internalizing and trying to figure things out on my own.

Having good relationships with the governor and the legislature and, you know, other elected officials at the local level, I think is really important as well.

So, that when there are tough moments, it's not just me that has to figure it out, but it's the collective "us."

And, that's what I really rely on, is the people that I come into contact with.

And, I'm able to call to get those ideas and build those coalitions and get those great ideas to get out of whatever the predicament that we are facing at the moment.

- So, I want you to give us some homework in terms of-- You know, obviously this is very inspiring, informational, super informative, great things.

You know, these interviews always give us some things that we don't know.

So, how does the person that is really moved by what they've just seen in the last 20-some-odd minutes, how do they follow up on the Treasurer's Office, on you, Fiona Ma, on the State of California and the state of things here?

Give us some homework.

Point us in some direction.

- I have a dedicated email, and that is AskFiona@Treasurer.CA.gov And, Kathryn Asprey.

That is her only job, is to answer and try to solve constituent issues.

So, please email me anytime.

I am on social media every day.

Yesterday, I was in Fresno at four different events, and I post on X, Threads, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn every single day.

- Wow.

- And, I try to keep the community involved in terms of what's goin' on.

I would say, if you don't understand an issue, go and investigate.

Go ask, go do a tour, go do a deep dive, because it is too easy just to listen to something on the news or TV and just believe that, that is the truth, right?

Because a lot of what's out there these days are, you know, not necessarily the truth.

So, go and find out yourself.

Do your own homework.

California, unlike maybe the federal government, we're not as partisan, right?

We really want to work together to figure out how to get things done to move this state forward.

And, that's what I would say to folks, is, like, keep the rhetoric out.

Try to find common ground with people, try to be more supportive, and help people and pull people up instead of dividing us.

And, that's why I think California is the fifth or fourth largest economy because of that attitude.

- California State Treasurer Fiona Ma, thank you so much for being with us.

So, we wanna thank you all for being with us on "Inland Edition."

You can catch all of these episodes on our YouTube channel, and continue to join us while we connect dots and build bridges one conversation at a time.

See ya.

[uplifting music and vocals] ♪ ♪ [softer music] ♪ ♪ [music fades]