♪ ♪ Yeah, the simple things in life!

♪ - My guest is Dr. Sigrid Burruss.

She is a trauma surgeon at Loma Linda University Health.

Welcome and thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

So, Loma Linda University has a new tattoo removal program of which you founded.

Tell me, how did the program come about?

SIGRID: This program has been quite some time in making it really came about for the need that we saw in our trauma patients.

So, many of our trauma patients come in as a result of violent injury, including gang-related violence.

And some of that is connected to the tattoos that identify them as gang members and their ongoing exposure to that gang violence because of the tattoos that are visible on them.

LILLIAN: Right.

So, how does the program work?

Tell me from beginning to end.

Tell me how it works.

SIGRID: Absolutely.

So, the tattoo removal clinic is, first of all, a free program that we offer to our community.

So, this is available to any community member that has tattoos that are visible on the head, the neck, or the hands that identify them, either as a gang member or some other gang-affiliated tattoo.

And also, any socially unacceptable tattoo that may be present.

And with that, they can give us a call at Loma Linda or email us at our injury prevention site and connect with us so that we can make sure that they qualify in terms of the tattoo removal portion.

And then, have them come in to clinic, which is part of the Department of Surgery, to then have the procedure done.

LILLIAN: OK, so I think you-- Well, let me ask you more specifically.

So, who is eligible and what are the requirements?

SIGRID: As part of our current funding, this is all free-of-charge to our community.

So, this is grant funded through partnership with the Institute for Community Partnerships here at Loma Linda.

So, with the current funding that we have, this is for Riverside and San Bernardino residents that have visible tattoos that are gang affiliated or socially unacceptable, and that they fall into lower income patients or are also at risk for violent injuries because of the environment that they live in.

LILLIAN: So, you've already started this program.

You've already seen some results.

Tell me about the program and you know specifically what's going on with you and your hands.

SIGRID: Absolutely.

So, the-- we had a huge response when we initially put this program out.

And that response has been continuing, given the ongoing need for the tattoo removals.

It is very expensive to get those removed by yourself; insurance does not cover it.

And, the private clinics are quite expensive.

And so, we've been able to help out a lot of our community members coming in.

It does require them to come quite a few times in order to get the tattoo completely removed.

But the results so far are very impressive with lightening of the tattoos, and being able to really remove those marks of their past.

LILLIAN: Yeah, I bet.

And so, what have been some of the comments that some of the patients that have gone through the process with you?

What have they shared with you or the program in general?

SIGRID: A lot of these individuals that come to the clinic were either prior gang members, they recently are released from jail, and some of them even have tattoos from individuals that have-- where they were prostitutes.

And so, identifying them as part of that life.

And so, as you can imagine, being-- having that visible and then applying for a job makes it incredibly challenging.

And just for anyone walking down the street, having these really visible markers of their past, of a past that they may no longer be a part of.

LILLIAN: You mentioned briefly of how the project is funded, and that it is quite expensive to do.

So, how will it continue and how did the funding get started?

SIGRID: The funding got started in partnership with our trauma/violence prevention programs.

So, within the Division of Trauma at Loma Linda, we have our trauma prevention program that really works with individuals who are violently injured to connect them to resources within the community, including our community violence prevention program.

And from that, grew our partnership with the Institute for Community Partnerships.

And so, all of us are working together to be able to identify and address the needs of our violently injured population, including those now with tattoos that are keeping them from reentering society and even obtaining a job.

And so, moving forward, that funding is going to be continued with additional community grant funds, as well.

LILLIAN: So, you're doing this; you're in the room; you're with the patient.

Are there others with you, or how does the-- assisting you?

What's the process there?

Is it a group effort?

SIGRID: It is-- a hundred percent is a group effort!

This would not be possible without all of us working together on this, given especially the large response in terms of the volume of patients.

We are very lucky within the Department of Trauma to have our trauma nurse managers, our injury prevention coordinator, our nurse practitioners, and then many other faculty that are assisting in this process.

Which allows us to make this a sustainable program because of so many individuals invested in this.

LILLIAN: Great.

As a trauma surgeon, share with me what you see come into your-- what you see day in or day out; the different type of patients that come into your area.

SIGRID: As a trauma surgeon, I see many individuals who come in as a result of injury, whether it's a car accident, motorcycle accident, or the more violent injuries such as the stabbings or the gunshot wounds.

And in the past, we've always just fixed up their physical injuries and then released them.

But, what we've seen over the years is that they come back.

And even myself, I've seen some of the patients come back and I recognize them.

And that is very distressing, right?

I mean, they're not supposed to get reinjured, but we put them back into the same environment that caused that injury to begin with.

And so, really highlighting that need to do better and more for our patients.

LILLIAN: As you work with a patient, how long does it take?

Is it-- I mean, obviously, it's going to depend on how many tattoos they might have on their arms, neck and hands.

How long can the process take?

And not that day, but I mean, over a long period of time?

Short period of time?

How does that work?

SIGRID: Yeah.

The laser works by breaking down the pigment actually that's present from the ink.

And so, it's a very slow process.

These patients do need to come back five, six, seven, eight times in order to get the tattoo completely removed to the point that it's not visible anymore.

And so, it's a huge time investment on their part, but I think very much worth it when the result is the removal of that, of that tattoo.

LILLIAN: Oh, I'm sure.

So, one tattoo can take five or six times just for one tattoo.

And, some of them might have multiple tattoos.

I would think?

SIGRID: Correct, correct.

And some of them, if they're larger, if it's covering their whole scalp and neck, will also take more time.

So, they may be with us for 30, 40 minutes in clinic getting the tattoo removed.

And it's a painful process, as well.

So, we need to take some breaks in between and before we keep moving forward.

LILLIAN: Yeah.

And, how do you feel after the patient is quote/unquote "cleaned up" or "ink removed?"

How does it, how does it make you feel?

SIGRID: Yeah.

The whole process is amazing because they share their stories with us, in terms of why they're here and what their goals are for the program.

And so, to be able to help them through that process and do so much to really provide a life-changing event is really impressive.

And, really, I think just makes us all feel so much more of a part of their care, and helping them get back into society and changing their lives around.

LILLIAN: Yeah.

It must make you feel good inside, I'm sure.

What do you hear from them?

That-- or, have they gone on maybe gotten back with you, been in touch and said, 'since then, I've done this', or 'this has happened?'

What has been some of the antidotes that you've heard?

SIGRID: Yeah.

So, we're still early on in the program.

So, no one has completely finished the process.

But, we do have a few individuals whose tattoos are lightened enough that they really are very difficult to see.

And for them, just-- we had one patient recently tell us that just seeing that lightening of that tattoo when he woke up in the morning and looked at himself in the mirror and being able to see his face again, really see his face for the first time made him cry.

And it's those types of stories that bring us to tears, too, because we know how impactful that is in terms of having them help not only heal, but also move forward in life.

LILLIAN: So, when you were going to school, to med school and doing your internships and such, did you think that this would be something you'd be doing?

SIGRID: I did not know!

You know, we're so wrapped up in learning medicine as a medical student and as a resident that some of the bigger picture issues, especially at a societal level, although we're aware of them, we're so busy learning the medicine that we don't quite know how we're going to impact that yet.

And so often, it's not until a little bit later that we can see and where we can have the most meaning and provide meaningful impact.

LILLIAN: Well, I think it's terrific.

I'm glad to share the information, and I hope people see it and hear it, and will contact your organization.

So, how do they reach you?

Where do they go?

SIGRID: So, the best way is through email at injuryprevention@llu.edu And through that, we connect them to our survey link so that they can fill out a few questions to make sure they qualify for the program.

And then, we connect with them to get their clinic appointment scheduled and see them.

LILLIAN: Terrific.

Thank you so much for your time.

I really appreciate it.

I hope the program succeeds and goes on to change more lives.

SIGRID: Thank you very much.

LILLIAN: My guest now is David Loya, who was a participant of the Loma Linda Tattoo Removal Program.

Thank you so much for agreeing to share your story with us.

DAVID: You're so welcome.

LILLIAN: So, how did you find yourself in your adolescence hanging out on the streets?

DAVID: Uh?

"How did I find myself hanging out in the streets?"

I found myself engaging in the wrong friendships.

I was a hyper kid, so I fit in with the misfits.

I remember in school I would always act up, and be hyper and couldn't sit still.

And, move around; ask questions and couldn't wait my turn.

I ended up being diagnosed with ADHD, so it put me into a place of not belonging, in a sense.

Put me in a place of I couldn't fit in with the-- the norm, in a sense.

So, I found myself surrounded with the misfits the clown, the class clowns.

And, that's how I found myself involved in the wrong friendships.

LILLIAN: And so, I'm going to guess.

But, if you-- tell me; you can tell me, yes or no.

Were you involved in gangs then, at a young age?

DAVID: Yes.

LILLIAN: And, why the tattoos?

Was it-?

What did they mean?

Or, what did they represent?

And, why did we-- why did you go down the road of tattooing your body?

DAVID: Yes.

I got my tattoos as a way to tell everybody and anybody that this is the life that I chose, and I'm not gonna change.

It was a stance of rebelliousness.

And now, you remember that I told you that I was involved with the wrong friends, and I felt that I couldn't be involved with the right people.

So, I was an outcast.

And so, my attitude was, "Well?

If society doesn't want me, "if my teachers doesn't want me, "if my classmates think that "I'm not normal, then "this is the route that I chose and I'm gonna let everybody know that I'm not normal."

And so, I got my tattoos as a way to show not only everybody in my group, but also the world that this is who I am.

LILLIAN: So, when you got your tattoos and you started identifying yourself as 'this is who I am and this is who I'm going to be', did you ever then feel like you wanted to leave it and you didn't know how?

Or, was that the path you were going down because that's the decision you had made?

DAVID: Good question.

There were times in my life when it hurt to be who I was.

Not only hurt me, but my family got hurt as well.

My mom did not want me to go to juvenile hall.

My parents did not want that lifestyle.

And I seen a lot of tears, and I seen a lot of hurt.

And there was moments at night when I said, "I don't want this life", but I didn't-- everywhere I looked around, people were in their lives.

So, there was nobody to kind of guide me, as far as peers, of something different.

So, yes, there were times when I was like, "Man, I don't want this."

But when I looked for something different, I couldn't find it.

LILLIAN: Now typically, not always, but many times those diagnosed with ADD and ADHD tend to be really smart individuals and can do so much.

But, sometimes they need to find their focus, is what I've seen throughout my time of seeing, of watching people with ADD and ADHD.

Brilliant people; great minds!

And, just need a focus.

When did you change your way of thinking, and what influenced you to think differently?

DAVID: Growing up, I got bored easily in school.

I would finish the classwork real quick, fast!

Teachers were on step three; I was already on step five!

So, I remember I would get bored easily and get ahead of everybody else.

And so, that was-- that was interesting.

But, the moment when I started thinking that I don't want to be a gang member no more was the moment that I was facing life in prison.

I started thinking about my future.

I started thinking about my family.

I started thinking about my mom.

And I remember my mom telling me, "David, you don't want this life.

"You don't want a life of 'in prison.'

"You don't want a life of hurt.

"You don't want a life of hurting yourself "where this is-- Where is this gonna lead you?"

So, I remember my mom and I remember my parents, my dad.

And then, I started thinking about my life.

Where do I want to be?

I was 27.

I wasn't married.

I had no kids.

And so, I started thinking to myself, "Man, I want that.

"I want a good life.

"I want a family.

I want a job."

I never had a job.

(chuckles) I wanted to be a productive citizen of society.

And so, when I was facing life in prison, to think that my whole future was going to be taken from me because of my choice-- I would say I wasn't perfect.

But, I didn't deserve life in prison.

So, it was a wakeup call.

I know that I wasn't perfect and I made some mistakes.

But to have my whole future taken from me for something that I didn't do, it really was a wakeup call for me because I don't want to spend my life in prison and, uh?

Yeah!

LILLIAN: So, what-- what changed?

What-?

How were you able to get out of one going to prison or changing that lifestyle, get out of a gang that you could, that you could change your life?

You obviously came to the realization you didn't want that life; you wanted something better.

You wanted a family.

You wanted the things you just described.

So, what triggered with you?

What changed?

DAVID: I was in a hopeless position.

Hopeless; out of my control.

I could not control the judge's decision.

I couldn't control if I was gonna do life, or not.

So, I was in a hopeless position.

And being in a hopeless position, you look for a greater power that's-- that's in control.

And so, I called out to God and I said "God?

If you are real, "and I believe you are, "please, help me because I can't help myself."

LILLIAN: So, were you at a point that you could ask somebody for help, that you could-- that you decided, you know, I just-- I'm trying to find out what trigger, then.

Then you said, "alright.

"Here's the path I'm going."

And, things were there for you to change your life.

Because, it's one thing to make up your mind to do it.

It's another thing to have the pathway and the tools to do it.

So, were there people in your life that influenced you that were helping you, guide you down a different road?

DAVID: When I ended up getting released from prison, there was a pathway to success.

There's many organizations that help parolees on the pathway to success.

So, the tools and the resources were there for me to change.

LILLIAN: So, what made you decide to remove the tattoos?

DAVID: I no longer was the man that I used to be.

When I looked into the mirror, I said, "Man, that's not who I am no more.

Not only that, now that I work for a company that helps individuals, I find it hard to-- to do business with the corporate world because of my tattoos.

LILLIAN: Yeah.

OK.

So, how did you learn about the program at Loma Linda?

DAVID: I learned about the program at Loma Linda by our organization, CityWay.

I've been searching for tattoo removals and I looked-- removal programs not only for myself, but others as well.

And, an email was sent to CityWay that stated, "If anybody wants to get a tattoo removed, "please, this is a new program.

Send them our way."

And, I was ecstatic!

I was happy about it.

That's how I heard about it.

LILLIAN: So, tell me about the process.

You heard about it from an email, you replied.

And, what was the process then for you?

DAVID: A call.

I had to call them.

And, my initial thought was this-- I've been searching for a tattoo removal.

So, my initial thought was, "This program's not going to go through."

I didn't think that I was gonna get my tattoos removed.

So, it was a shot-in-the-dark for me, but it was worth a try.

And so, when I called them, there was an interview process to go through.

Of course, it had to be gang-related, and there was some criterias that needed to be met to be approved to get tattoos removed.

LILLIAN: How many tattoos did you have, and how many are you hoping to remove?

DAVID: So, I don't know if you could see my face that good, but if you could count on it I would rather you count because there's one tattoo that no one can see no more, and it's off completely!

So, I love that.

But, all the tattoos on my face number one, two, three, four, five, six, tattoos on my face.

LILLIAN: Well, your face looks pretty clean from where I am!

And you're quite a handsome man, so I'm glad we get to see your face.

Now, aren't tattoos expensive to, to get?

DAVID: Yeah!

Not only to get, but to remove, as well!

(laughs) LILLIAN: OK!

So, tell me: does it-- does the process hurt?

Is it hurting to remove it?

DAVID: Yes!

LILLIAN: You know, just a little bit.

If others might be listening or watching, just share that with me.

DAVID: I mean, "does it hurt?"

It hurts like getting a tattoo.

I mean, in a sense, you are penetrating your skin.

I mean, you are-- your skin is getting hit, in a sense.

So, it does hurt but it's worth it.

Getting tattoos hurt.

So, I say, "hey, if you could get a tattoo, you could get it removed!

(Lillian laughs) LILLIAN: OK, so how did you feel maybe the first time when you no longer saw a tattoo when you looked in the mirror?

And, of course, you've had a few removed now, but maybe the first one when it was gone?

Or, how do you feel now when you look in the mirror?

DAVID: I feel so happy.

I feel like I'm beginning to see the man that I want to become in my life, in society, in my future family's life.

I'm excited.

The first tattoo that got removed, I was really, really happy about it because I did not like it.

It resembled so much bad memories, a bad reputation.

So, when that got removed, I was just in tears.

I was like, "Wow."

It was just amazing for me.

So happy.

LILLIAN: So, what's your mission now?

What do you hope to accomplish moving forward?

DAVID: Moving forward, I just hope to be an encouragement to others.

I want to help others.

I was in a lifestyle.

I'm no longer in it, and I'm gonna do everything I can.

I tell people I'm gonna-- "I'm gonna die doing this."

I'm done with my old life, and now I'm living a new life.

And I'm going to die helping others, as much as I can.

LILLIAN: And, how do you-- how do you plan to do that?

You work for this company now.

And so, what's your job?

What are you doing?

DAVID: My job now.

I work for a CityWay.

My job now is to help people transition from prison back into society successfully for employment, careers, and even entrepreneurship.

I'm a businessman now.

LILLIAN: What do you tell the people that you are-- you know where they're coming from, you know where they've been.

What do you tell them when you're trying to encourage them to maybe look a different way?

DAVID: I think the main thing that they have the wrong attitude is they can't change.

That's what I see a lot.

Like, they can't do it.

This is the only life that they know.

They can't get a job because of the tattoos or because of their past.

And I tell them, "well, "praise God, I'm in the same situation.

I was in prison.

I had tattoos, and I have a job now."

And I tell them if I could do it, you could do it, too.

LILLIAN: And, do you see their faces when you think they're believing you?

Because it's one thing to hear a person say it, it's another thing to really believe it and say they want to walk down that road.

Can you sometimes see it in their face when they think, "nah, I can't?"

Or when they finally decide, "yeah, maybe I can?"

Do you see that in them?

DAVID: I haven't seen it in them yet.

Every person I've talked to, and I think it's because of this.

I think it's because they see somebody who's really lived the life.

I still have tattoos, as you could see.

So they can say, "OK, this guy really lived the life."

And, I still have that little residue of the old life in me!

I think the way I talk or the way I carry myself.

I mean, though my heart is not the same, I think I still act, a little bit.

And so, they see it.

And so, they can relate.

They know the realness of it.

And, they know that I've been in that lifestyle.

So, when they look at me and they see me and they hear me talk, they believe it.

LILLIAN: Ah.

DAVID: They have to believe it.

LILLIAN: Very good.

So, would you recommend or have you recommend this program to others?

DAVID: I will recommend it!

A thousand and one opportunities.

I will recommend it every chance I get.

And, I have recommended it.

I have so many text messages and emails about this program, this wonderful program at Loma Linda, and I will continue to recommend it.

LILLIAN: And, how do you and the doctor get along?

DAVID: Perfect!

She's so sweet to me.

She's so nice.

She's very gentle on the-- on the hand.

In prison, they say when you get tattoos, "I don't want to get tattoos by someone with a heavy hand."

And, it just says that they're heavy on their hand.

So, it might hurt a little bit.

She's very easy on the hand when it comes to tattoo removal.

So, it's a breeze.

LILLIAN: Very good.

David, thank you so much for sharing your story.

It's been a pleasure talking with you and seeing your beautiful face!

DAVID: Thank you.

Thank you so much.

LILLIAN: This program was originally produced for 91.9 KVCR-Radio.

♪ ♪ Yeah, the simple things in life!

♪