(lively violin music) - My guest is Dr. Ivan Rosenberg.

He is the founder and president of the Uniquely Abled Project.

Welcome, and thank you for joining us.

- Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity.

So what is the Uniquely Abled Project and what are its goals?

Tell me a little bit about it.

- Well, it actually has two goals, so there are two big issues that it's dealing with.

One is there's about 40 million people who are diagnosed as disabled, and there's a whole bunch of other people who have employment challenges due to having been formerly incarcerated or something else.

And there's a 60 to 90% unemployment rate among those people.

And that's pretty horrific if you think about it.

And then on the other side, you have businesses who are just, and I'm not being exaggerating, they're screaming for workers.

They cannot get the people they need.

And what we said was maybe these were solutions for each other.

And that's really what the Uniquely Abled Project is all about, to solve both those problems by having them be solutions for each other.

- Let's talk about the type of training this is and what it's for.

What is CNC, computer numerical control?

And what is its nature of the work task and the environment, that this is one of the trainings that you have, tell me what it is.

- Right, so CNC stands for computer numerical control, and it's a reference to a type of manufacturing machine where a computer controls a cutting tool that essentially cuts a piece of metal into a shape that's needed by somebody, you know, usually an airplane or medical or something like that.

It's very precise work.

Your tolerances generally are very, very small.

It requires knowledge of computing, requires a very...

There's a right way and a wrong way.

And you don't want to do the wrong way because you may be dealing with a part that's cost $10,000.

So that's what a CNC machine is.

And there is a huge demand for CNC operators.

They just can't get enough and there's lots of reasons.

But part of it may be that manufacturing is not considered a high goal for people in high school.

In fact they have images of manufacturing as dirty and dark and dingy and all that kind of stuff, which is not how it is, but that's the picture.

And so both because of that and for a number of other reasons, there's a lot of demand for CNC operators which cannot be satisfied.

- I have been teaching since 2003.

As time has progressed we've seen different populations coming into this industry and because there's such a big need for operators right now, the program has been recruiting different special populations: dreamers, the uniquely abled, veterans, international students.

And what we found right now is that we're having a lot of success with the autism program.

We have already encountered approximately three individuals with this diagnosis.

And our experience has been that typically they're more focused.

And when you put them on something, they start the task from the beginning to the end.

A lot of times what happens is operators is you get individuals that want to be machinists, but then their first level job is an operator.

And then they're kind of stuck in there where they're doing that constantly.

And they get tired of it, where this population we're not experiencing that.

They are operators and they're content with doing that.

And so I foresee that this is a good match for them.

This is the main lab here.

For instance here's a part that's being manufactured for one of the board of trustee members who is into making telescopes.

So he needed a base and I guess no one's tapped into this market and so this is something for instance that the students would be making.

The program started in 1946.

This is our 75th year we're celebrating.

So here, not only are we pushing for the future with these machines, but we also maintained our past history.

One of the things that Valley has that's different than other schools, they will know how to run a multitude of languages in terms of machines.

So wherever they're placed in the industry, then they won't have any issue in terms of a learning curve, because they've already experienced that machine.

And not only will they be able to run a Haas, but they'll be able to run a MORI SEIKI, an Okuma, a Samsung FANUC, or Mazak Titan Machinery.

Because there's such a big need for operators, it's only a matter of time where the manufacturers notice where that talent is and they're going to be coming for our students.

- Okay, so.

Obviously we're going to tie these two together because that's why we're having the conversation.

So who are good candidates for this specific CNC job and the training?

- What we determined, so if you step back a moment to what the Uniquely Abled Project's all about, and what we saw was that if I come to a potential employer and I say, "I'd like you to hire Joe and Joe's disabled," we're immediately in a charity conversation.

- Right.

- We're not in a business conversation because immediately you said, "Joe lacks something."

And in fact that's the question that the employer would have.

"Well, what are they missing?"

Right?

"What am I going to have to accommodate?

"What am I going to have to give up?"

Which has been a big obstacle to hiring those 40 million.

What we saw, the big insight, was that everyone who has a diagnosis has a compensating, unique ability.

And the obvious one are people, for example, that are blind.

And in general, statistically, they have heightened senses of hearing and touch much better than you and I.

- Right.

- What nobody ever does is ask, "Well, what job could use that?"

Like being a masseuse, for example, and some people said they get the best massages they've ever gotten from somebody who was blind.

- Ah!

- So, but nobody ever does that.

So what we said was, instead of looking at people with a diagnosis as disabled, how about looking at them from the point of view of what their unique ability is and that's where we coined the term uniquely abled.

So now I go to Joe, a potential employer, and say, "I've got Henry.

"I think he fits your vacancy perfectly "and he's a uniquely abled fit."

Now the employer's interested.

Different conversation.

- Right.

- So to get back to your question, what we saw is, okay, what diagnoses, and yes I'm speaking statistically because everybody's different.

- Right.

- And I acknowledge that.

But if you're going to build a program, you've got to look at it statistically.

We knew there was a huge demand for CNC operators and what diagnosis fits that?

Well it turns out that those with level one autism are a perfect fit.

Level one requires the least support, used to be known as high-functioning.

But, you know, usually they have a social issues, things like that.

And it turns out they're a perfect match.

And not just that they're a match for the job, but the jobs a match for them, you know.

It's not, they love it.

Again, statistically.

But one of the kids, you say the graduates, said, "You know when I was growing up, "my goal was to be a Lego designer.

"This is the adult version."

- So tell me why it's a good fit for that population.

- Well, first of all, they're incredible, again, statistically.

- Right, not everybody.

- Yup.

They are very used to dealing with computers, thinking logically, there's a right way and a wrong way.

And they're very good at detecting when it's the wrong way.

So if you're operating a multi-million dollar machine, you want to know when something's wrong and then through their hearing and their sight and other things they can tell faster than you and I can.

Something's not working right here.

They're very focused.

Generally, if you're running CNC, you may be running three at the same time.

And so you've gotta be able to be focused in on what's going on on each machine each time.

So that's some of the reasons why they're just a wonderful fit.

And by the way of the 70 that have graduated so far, there's almost a 100% placement which is unheard of in vocational education programs.

- So I want you to paint a picture, if you can, a visual picture of what it really looks like.

Now I'm guessing that it's very rote, because that would be something else that individuals with autism, or high-functioning, level one as you're calling them, because it's a beginning, middle and end, beginning, middle and end.

And it's probably very rote, meaning it's the same thing almost every time or close to it.

Can you paint a picture of what they actually learn and what they actually do when they go in?

- Okay.

So two things in terms of what the training program is, and then what the job looks like.

Yeah.

The training program is 17 weeks.

It's full time.

And part of that is so that they get used to what full-time work is like.

- [Lillian] Right.

- You know, going to a job at eight o'clock, work until five, whatever, having a break.

You want, they've got to get used to that, so the training program mimics that.

Generally they'll start with topics like safety, how to use a measurement tool, and how to read blueprints.

And that's generally how it starts.

So there's certain requirements.

They've gotta be able to do basic math, generally a high school diploma or something like that is required.

Gotta be able to read English and understand it.

And then in general, and every program is different.

So we, our job is to help what we call Uniquely Abled Academies, the training programs, get up and running.

But we don't run them.

We don't fund them.

Every one is slightly different depending on the local circumstances.

So in general the next one is often running on a, getting used to a manual machine, not the computer control, but getting experience on what is that?

Sort of up close and personal.

There's no wall between you and the cutting tool.

It's right there.

- Okay.

- So you really get an experience of what is going on in this machine.

And then you move to the computer-controlled machines.

And there are two types which may be too much detail, but there's, what's called milling machines, which shape a part, and then there are lathe machines which have rotating, which are making that kind of stuff.

That's probably a bit much for you.

So that's what they learn.

There's also soft skills training.

I should back up a second and say, one of the things we saw when we were looking at training programs is why aren't there more successful training programs, vocational training programs for the uniquely abled?

What was in the way?

And when I say successful, I mean placement in a career job.

I don't mean bagging groceries, nothing wrong with that, but that's not what we're arguing for, okay.

So how come?

And what we saw was there's eight functions that are required for success in such a program.

And no one organization has all eight and they don't collaborate.

Not because they don't want to, but there's no structure for collaboration.

So we created something called the Uniquely Abled Academy.

And all that is is a structure so that multiple organizations can collaborate to deliver all eight functions in a single program.

So from the point of view of the student, they walk into this program and this program handles training on the machine, it handles training the instructors on how to train the population, it handles soft skills training, it handles job placement and search, It handles post hire support.

From the point of view of the student it's one program, even though there are multiple service providers all the way through and that's why it's successful.

- And that's part of the 17 weeks that you're referring to.

Right?

- Right, yep.

- Okay.

- Other than the job placement, which occurs after they graduate and the post hire support.

But yes, that's all part of the 17 weeks.

You've got to integrate the soft skills into the program.

That's the important issue for people with autism.

You know, how do I handle it?

I've got a job, I'm pressed to get this out on a certain time, and Joe, one of my coworkers wants to come up and chit chat.

How do I handle that without annoying him, right?

I mean, you'd be like this, "Joe, I can't talk to you right now.

Go away."

Right.

- Yeah.

- Well, that's not, you want to find a better solution than that.

- Right, right.

- And so that's part of the soft skills training.

And then we also have to train the managers on how to be effective with this population.

It's not difficult.

There's just a few critical, but useful tips.

And we've got a $120,000 grant from Mitsubishi America Education Foundation.

- Nice.

- And to make up many videos to support the instructors, for the soft skills training, and to support managers.

- Now I read this, "The words we use shape how and what we see."

What are you referring to here?

It's according to-- - That's what I said.

Yeah that's what I said before about disabled versus uniquely abled.

So if I say, you know, "I'd like you to meet Joe and Joe's disabled," immediately your question is "What's Joe missing?"

Not a good thing to do if you're trying to encourage somebody to hire Joe.

- Right, okay.

(Dr. Rosenberg laughs) - And so that's why we coined the term uniquely abled, creates a totally different world.

- Got it, and then let's talk about the importance of a solid business basis, meaning don't hire because you feel sorry, hire for the right reasons and what are the right reasons?

Because it's a good fit?

- Yeah, that's a broad way of saying it.

Look, I'm not a social worker.

I have no social work background.

I'm a business person.

I'm a consultant for business.

I've started companies.

I've led companies.

I come at it from a business perspective.

If I'm looking to hire somebody, my criteria is, can they fill the need I have?

- Right.

- That's it.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

I mean, that's it, there's nothing, that's all I'm concerned about.

Yeah I want to make sure it's economically viable and a bunch of other stuff.

But my first question is, "Can they fill a need I have?"

That's a business conversation.

And that's why we actually have a training program for job developers, people who help people find jobs.

And part of that training program is stay in a business conversation, not a charity.

They're used to having a charity conversation.

And we want to train them.

And those are available for free.

On our website we have seven one-hour videos to train job developers how to do that.

- But we want to stay focused on what we really want and not the charity angle of it.

Now.

- Exactly.

- I understand that San Bernardino Valley College is preparing to offer the training.

What can students expect in the training and following the training?

And you know, what will, if students or parents, it's usually parents that are probably going to suggest it to their son or daughter, more son if we're talking about autism since it's more common in autism with boys than in girls, what will this training look like?

Will it be exactly as you've described?

It will take place at San Bernardino Valley College?

- Yes.

Be pretty close.

I mean, we've done this quite a few times now.

I've written a 135-page book on how do you do it, so.

Lessons learned.

And then part of what we provide is the consulting to the school.

We've been doing that already with San Bernardino on what we've learned.

And that's always been useful because it's the first time for them.

So what they can expect is a selection process.

One thing we should say, look, I'm a parent of two kids on the autism spectrum.

I know what parents going through.

When they're teenagers, you live, you're awake every night.

How are they going to support themselves when I'm not here anymore?

- Right.

- And what results from that sometimes is a parent forcing their child into a program.

We don't want that.

It won't work.

So we always ask the prospective student, "Why do you want to do this?"

And what we're looking for is not that they know what even CNC stands for, but that they, things they like doing match.

For example, we might ask, "What kind of games did you like to play as a kid?

"What kind of games do you like to play now?"

if you like playing with you know, the putting things together, taking them apart.

- The Legos?

The Legos.

- The Legos.

- Yeah.

- Oh.

This is a good thing because that's what you'll be doing.

- Yeah.

- Right?

So we want that natural way of operating to sort of fit the job.

And so that's what they can expect is some sort of a selection.

And then the training program, as I've said, generally the hours vary.

I don't know exactly what San Bernardino is planning, but it'll be something like all day.

- Right.

- You know.

Or pretty close to it.

They'll be in a cohort of students that have the same diagnosis.

And what we've found is those cohorts bond.

And it's really great, you know, because they don't, social issues are generally part of the problem.

And so they don't necessarily have a group of people that match what they like.

And all of a sudden they do.

They're looking for the same job, they're going through the same training.

And so there's a real bonding that takes place on the part of the cohort.

And I want to make clear, we're not just dumping these kids in and say, "Go for it."

There's a huge amount of support that we make sure is there, you know.

So if somebody doesn't show up for class, somebody calls and finds out, not like you're bad and wrong and you should show up, but what's going on?

What help do you need?

It's a totally different way of operating.

And we make sure in the class that they're prepared for the training program, that they're prepared for what's gonna come next.

For example, transitions are typically difficult for people with autism.

But here's what's great: is if you prepare them, if you know exactly what's going to happen, and you train them and prepare them, they can actually do great things.

And I'll give you an example.

At our second UAA at College of the Canyons, the head of that program suggested that they do a job fair in the morning and the afternoon and do graduation that night.

Now a job fair is there's 10 employers in 10 different rooms and you have 15-minute interviews.

Now, I don't know about you.

I would be intimidated by that.

And somebody who's got autism, you've now described the worst of all possible worlds, right?

- Yep.

- My God, transition, and I've gotta do it in the morning and in the afternoon and I'm being evaluated and judged, and God, that sounds terrible.

And we told him it wasn't going to work.

And he said with the proper training they can.

So they did.

They prepared their resume.

They prepared a folder for each employer.

They were all set to go.

They rehearsed.

They came one night dressed as they were supposed to come dressed for it.

And then they did a, what would you call it?

Like they had three rooms set up with people acting as employers.

- Kind of a mock interviews.

- Exactly, yep.

And they went through it and they got asked the kind of questions they might ask, although that was also handled in the training.

So, and that was on one of the films that we made.

And one of the grads said, "You know, when I went in the room, yes, I was nervous, "but I was really well-prepared."

- So that's really important because we know this population, while they may have the skills to do the job, getting through the interview is usually where they bomb and it doesn't go further.

And yet we know that some of these individuals have enormous talent and intellect and can do so much.

But if you can't get through the interview, you're never gonna get the job, right?

- Well, we actually, part of what we deal with is suggesting to the employers, how they do the selection.

And one of the strong recommendation is don't use HR interviews.

It's a waste of time.

- Exactly.

- Unless the HR person really knows about autism and knows about the program, knows about the job, you know, then it's fine.

But that's not typical.

- Right.

So we actually, who does the interviewing at those job fairs is often a general manager or even the head of the company.

- Ah, even better.

Because they actually know the product and what they're doing and the questions they can ask and share that information.

- Exactly.

- Okay, let me ask you, we just have a few minutes left.

What about the individuals who aren't quite suited for this, that maybe aren't a level one as you described.

What do you suggest for them and their families?

- Very good.

So we have a, so we would say there's two kinds of jobs.

There's jobs that require prior training, like what we've been talking about and there's jobs which do not, which are generally for this second group.

We want to handle everybody eventually, but we're not ready to do that yet.

So there are people for whom the sophistication of a job that requires prior training is not applicable to them.

Things like what we call debarring, assembly, learning simple manual machines.

There's huge amount of jobs in which employers do not expect these prospects to come in trained.

So what do we do about that?

Well, we've done a couple of things.

First of all, we've, as I said, we're training job developers to speak business, and that's an important part, but the real side is the businesses.

So what we've done there is a lot of communication articles and resources to one, let them know they've got a lot of these jobs.

And generally when they advertise, they don't specify things like able to handle high repetition and yet maintain detailed focus.

(Lillian laughs) I worked with the fastener manufacturers for years, that's in none of their literature.

And yet that's the crucial thing for success.

- Right, and that's perfect for this population.

- For many of them, they love it.

I mean, again, certain aspects of it.

- Right.

- They love that.

Give me a job to do, it's the same thing every day for five days a week, I'm happy.

- Right.

- So that's the first thing is to get the companies to look for abilities, not just skills.

- Right.

- And advertise that.

And then the second thing we have to educate them is just like what you just said.

There are populations which love that job.

They can't imagine that.

- Right.

Because we think everybody's like us.

- Right.

- Yes.

- And we would hate it.

And so we have to educate them.

There's populations who love that job.

And then even if they got that, they'd say, "But where do I go?

How do I find these people?"

So we've made lists on our website of who do you call.

If you're in Burbank, here's the four people you can call, the job developers.

And then the last thing we did was have a common language because if the company calls and says, "I need a 10 ton press operator," most job developers are not going to know what they're talking about.

- Right.

- So we made up a list of jobs and tried to describe "What does a 10 ton press operator mean?"

so that the job developer can look at that and say, "Okay let me look at my consumers "and see who's a good fit for that."

- Right.

- And so far it's been a really good match.

- Yeah.

We have just about a minute left.

I want you to share with me maybe one or two, if you can, success stories that you were talking about, the percentage that go through the program and that jobs are available and they get jobs.

So if you can share a little bit of your success stories.

- Well, there was, there was one graduate.

I think they were from Glendale Community College, which was our first.

We got started there.

And I remember at the second graduation.

So he was part of the first one.

And he was so intimidated by speaking publicly that he had somebody else read his story.

But he talked about how his life was different.

He was able to have his own apartment.

He had bought a car, you know?

He was making his own decisions in life.

And I don't know that it gets any better than that.

- Yeah.

I don't either.

Dr. Ivan Rosenberg is the founder and president of the Uniquely Abled Project.

Thank you so much for sharing a little bit more.

I look forward to seeing the Project here on the campus of San Bernardino Valley College.

Appreciate your time.

- Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Really been a pleasure.

- [Lillian] This program was originally produced for 91.9 KVCR Radio.

(lively violin music)