- [Announcer] Support for this series comes from Inland Empire Health Plan a health plan with a mission to heal and inspire the human spirit, serving over 1.5 million members in the Inland Empire.

- If you wanna be good to yourself, if you wanna make sure that you are putting forth the best version of yourself to the people that you love and you care about, it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we are taking care of our whole self.

- Behind every diagnosis is a person, a family, a story.

Hi, I'm Leticia Juarez and on this show we are listening to patients and the medical professionals who walk beside them, sharing their struggles, breakthroughs, and the lessons learned along the way.

Together, we're making healthcare clear, compassionate, and closer to home.

So, join me on this journey of Health Caring.

[soft piano music] ♪ - [Leticia] Today's episode takes a closer look at mental health and why it matters more than ever.

I'll be speaking with behavioral health experts, people sharing their own journeys in therapy, and wellness advocate and musician Abi Carter.

Together, they'll help us explore what it really means to care for our minds and ourselves.

- Hi, I'm Carl Wilson.

I have a doctorate in behavioral health.

I am a licensed professional counselor on marriages, family, substance abuse, anger management, depression, anxiety, and trauma, particularly battle trauma and military sexual assault.

- So, I'm guessing you do a lot with veterans.

- Yes, we do.

- What is mental health and why is it so important?

- We like to talk about physical health.

You know, we're really big on making sure you go get that annual physical exam every year.

But, what we know is that in order to really be healthy, we can't just focus on the physical.

So, you think of the aspects of a man.

There is a physical aspect of a man, there is a social aspect of a man, there is a mental or emotional aspect of a man, and there also is a spiritual aspect of a man.

So, really we have to address all four components to really be what we call well-balanced in life.

When one of those are off, then you find people typically have struggles in their life.

- [Leticia] Sylvia Samy, a behavioral health therapist serving the Temecula region, agrees.

- My expertise or my niche is trauma.

So that's, like, the foundation but a lot of areas kind of stem away from that, like anxiety, depression, marital issues.

So, all that is under what I do.

- And, I feel like in having a conversation with someone like you, it's kind of someone who doesn't know you, who doesn't come with the biases.

- Right!

- They come to you and they can have a fresh pair of eyes that can look at them and say, "Let's work on who you are as an individual."

- When we talk about why is it important to go in and talk to someone who's doing it as a job, right, rather than your girlfriend or your neighbor, we see things from a different perspective in terms of, okay, we have things that we're working with and there's a need that you have and we're going to get to that need.

Let me take down all the noise, right?

Bring down all the chaos that's around, and put kind of the choices for you in a way where you can make an educated decision rather than just reactive decision.

So, understanding yourself a little bit better in order for you to say, "Okay, I can do this for myself."

- [Carl] There's no way possible for you to be okay 24 hours a day, seven days a week, (laughs) 365 days of the year!

There's just no way possible!

(laughs) Yeah!

So, you need to have somebody in your life, you know, who you can talk to.

And, mental health is really designed to help you sort of see yourself from an objective point of view.

- What are some other things that are kind of just driving mental health?

I feel like there's a lot more things that are making us anxious or depressed, whether it's, you know, our families, our socioeconomics, our politics.

Like, there's so much.

- [Sylvia] Yes!

Yes, there is a lot.

I think we have a lot of information and the information is constant.

It's in our pocket, right?

So, whether it's politics or whatever it is that you're looking up, it's constantly there.

And, that causes us to just be on a different level of anxiety.

I mean, if we're looking in the last 20 years, right?

At least from my perspective as doing this, in the last 10 years, there's been a significant increase in anxiety and depression in adolescents.

There's a correlation between social media, and anxiety and depression.

Just because the more that you're on those things and the more information that you have, it just makes you more anxious 'cause it makes you feel like you're supposed to be somewhere that you're not.

- [Carl] When we talk about social media, we are seeing this rise, again, in depression, self image, you know, self-esteem.

And there really needs to be a balance, though.

You know, I always tell parents we don't wanna just take that away because it's their way of communicating with the world.

It's their attachment to the world.

And so, we don't wanna just come down hard and just snatch that away, but we do want to help people really find the balance, especially kids, because their brains are still developing.

- [Sylvia] If we just take a step back and look at it, we're all human and we go through the same things, right?

Regardless of your gender, your ethnicity, your cultural background, we have the same developmental stages that we run through.

I'm a big promoter of having mental health in schools, right?

Like, why don't we have some classes and teach people what anxiety is?

"Hey, you know what?

You're having a panic attack.

"You're not gonna die.

It's okay.

We'll figure it out."

Right?

- Mm hm.

- So, but I think as humanity, we do tend to oscillate between extremes!

So, we went from shameful and don't talk about it to, in the last I wanna say about seven years of my practice, it's become more of an identity.

Right?

So, people are more identifying with symptoms rather than saying, "I have this, I am this."

We still have an issue, right?

When something is an identity, well, what are we gonna do about it, right?

I don't want to change you as a person, but if something is a struggle and we're working with it, then it's a different perspective.

- Why is it that kids of this generation are experiencing more of this anxiety and depression?

- [Carl] We've not done a good job with distress tolerance for our younger generations.

And, distress tolerance is important because you need to hear the word "no!"

(chuckles) Not everybody needs a trophy because they participated.

And, when we don't do that and then you do hear "no" for the first time, if we don't have good coping skills to help insulate us with those distressing events, you just find people typically, emotionally, they collapse.

Emotionally, they collapse.

And, from there, if it's not treated early enough, your brain can become your worst enemy for you.

And so, I think we have a high number of people today in America with depression and anxiety than any other time is because, again, we are-- we're doing it now, but it's not always been at the forefront of mental health care; accessing it, being able to call somebody on the telephone or do it by email or by telehealth.

-[Leticia] Do you see that really kind of helping with getting people to be more comfortable if they're, say, at home in their own setting and then talking to someone?

- Yes, absolutely!

There are pros and cons to accessing care through telehealth.

Of course, we'd rather you do telehealth than not do anything at all!

So, if you're more comfortable with doin' it from home, then stay at home and do it.

I will say that we really want to be able to see you.

That's probably the most effective way for treatment.

But, again, when you have people who live far away in rural areas-?

Lots of working adults, they love telehealth.

They want to do telehealth.

It's convenient for them to do it.

In their car!

You know?

During lunchtime!

- During lunch break!

Yeah.

- They can go out and get their appointment in!

Yeah.

- Yeah.

It's finding the balance but also finding the time 'cause we live such busy lives.

- Busy lives.

- Like, how do we find the time to seek out mental health professionals?

- Yeah.

Typically when you come in to get help, therapy, it's not one shot and you're done.

It is over the lifespan.

And so, it's okay if new issues develop later on, alright?

We still want you to be able to come back in again if something like that happens.

There's a trend today to get out there and to make sure that people are having early screening, early treatment as much as possible.

- [Leticia] Andres is someone who found therapy as a young adult.

He admits he was reluctant at first, but now sees it as an important part of his life.

- [Leticia] Thank you, Andres, for joining me for this conversation.

- Of course.

- Tell me about your mental health journey, if you don't mind.

- It actually got initiated by my fiancé.

She's in the behavioral health industry.

And so, she introduced me to the idea of going to therapy.

And, we started going together for couples therapy, kind of working out our kinks before, you know, we finally get married.

- And, can I ask you, what was your approach when she first broached that subject?

What were your thoughts about having therapy sessions?

- There's always that-- I mean, there's definitely that stigma that, you know, you kind of step back and say, "I don't need therapy.

There's nothing wrong with me."

You kind of get a little defensive, and I felt, "Well, what's wrong with me?

"What are you kind of trying to imply?

But, I think after so many conversations, you start to realize that, you know, there are those underlying things that, you know, you don't have control over and addressing them and going to therapy is just the first step to working them out.

- What was that first session like?

- It was-- It was interesting.

I remember being in there and just trying to figure out like, well, I don't really know where to start.

Like, what do we start to work on?

After a few conversations, you start to see the overlapping themes and something that you can, you know, start to work on.

- [Leticia] What are some of the common misconceptions people have about mental health and mental health care professionals?

- [Carl] Typically, patients think that (chuckles) there's an easy fix!

It's like, if you've been this way for 36 years, for 50 years, I'm not gonna be able to (chuckles) undo, you know, decades of maladaptive behavior.

We're not gonna be able to do that in one session.

A lot of people come in, they think it's an easy fix.

They just want medication.

And, of course, medication is never a silver bullet.

It's not an answer to most of the issues that we deal with in life.

There really has to be lifestyle changes and that takes time.

And so, I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that there's a quick fix to people's struggles in life.

- [Sylvia] I'm not here to tell you what to do.

And, it's very common for patients to ask us, like, "What do I do with this?"

I'm like, "I'm not making choices for you," but I can, again, calm the chaos, show you the areas that you tend to do that are not very helpful for you, and then you make your choice, right?

So, we don't make choices for people.

We don't change people in a way that it's gonna just disrupt their entire life.

It's just offering them different perspectives, really.

- [Leticia] What are the key benefits of seeking mental health support?

- Making sure that all aspects of ourself are being taken care of.

Everything from physical, mental, spiritual, and social.

And so, I think that when we talk about making sure that people are taken care of, we have to make sure that we address all those aspects of life to really find that balance.

And, it's difficult for most of us.

Even I have a difficult time with finding that balance, but it's something that I think that we're all on a mission to really try to do.

- [Andres] I should have done this sooner.

Like, that's definitely what I felt.

And, I always kind of like to compare it to exercise.

You don't get a six-pack without doing sit-ups!

You know, you have to do the-- put the reps in, and therapy just feels like you're putting in the reps for your mental health and your well-being.

- [Leticia] Is there anything that these sessions identified that you say, "I didn't know I needed to work on this, but now I know what to do in the situation?"

- It kind of brought out issues that I have with certain people in my life and how I could address those issues.

And then, we can have productive conversations to strengthen those relationships.

A reoccurring theme is having a support system.

It's very important.

It's everything.

And so, when it's not there, you feel a lot of strain in your life.

- What would you tell someone who is thinking, you know, "I wanna go to a mental health therapist, but I don't really think I need it?"

- I say do it, 100%.

It's gonna benefit you.

It's something that I felt I should've done sooner, and I think that, that tends to be the theme.

It's the sooner, the better.

- I didn't really realize that I needed to see a therapist.

Now, I think everybody should see a therapist.

Everybody.

- [Leticia] Mr.

Penn, a veteran, waited nearly 30 years before seeking help, a delay shaped by stigma and a culture of silence.

- My military service was a long time ago.

It was interesting.

It was different.

I was in the Coast Guard.

I met up on some-- some rough times because of the-- I don't know if I can come out with it or not.

The racism that was-- we were dealing with there.

It's pretty difficult.

So-- - I can imagine.

- Yeah.

- This would've been, what, the 1970s?

- 1976.

- [Carl] I'd like to say about 75% of our patient population is military, either active duty or veterans.

And, that also includes their family members.

- I'm guessing the Inland Empire is a place where you've found there's a lot of veterans because you have, you know, there used to be Norton Air Force Base.

A lot of those retirees are still here.

- Mm hm, yes.

And, the Marine Corps logistical base.

I was the behavioral health director there.

That's actually who moved me here to California.

I'm Army, but the Marines moved me here.

- So, you must have your own basis of, like, kind of knowledge when it comes to speaking with veterans.

You kind of have that, "I know what you've been through."

- Yes.

That's actually what brought me to this field.

I did this in the military, and when I got out of the military, I knew that those issues were-- they were not gonna go away.

- [Leticia] When you had to come back, like, into civilian life, what was that - Horrible.

- transition like?

- Horrible.

Let's talk about that.

- It was horrible.

So, when we left the military, you should get a... You were supposed to get a debrief.

And the debrief, it's supposed to explain your transition from military life to civilian life, right?

And, the things that were accessible to you.

(pauses) And, as a result of that, it took me 30 years to even know that I had access to the VA.

- [Leticia] My dad was a Vietnam vet; dealt with a lot of PTSD.

But, he only got help in his 70s.

- Yes.

- So, obviously I'm thinking those things need to be said sooner.

- [Carl] So, the Army has a program that's called the Army Civilian Assistance Program, ACAP, and what it does, when military personnel come back from war or when they're transitioning out of the military, they get a chance to sort of be introduced to civilian life.

It's a terrible program.

(chuckles) You get about three weeks of learning how to write a resumé, and then they kick you out of the military is what they do.

You are not prepared, especially if you're a combat veteran.

And so, we know that when you join the military, there is-- you're trained to really operate with the fight, flight, or freeze; the amygdala in overdrive.

But, what we don't do is we don't teach you how to turn that off and reset that to its normal baseline when we introduce you back into the civilian life.

It's not until they retire, they're no longer working, and they're having to sit home with their own thoughts do all of those issues begin to surface.

- [Michael] Dr.

Wilson was the first therapist that I went to.

And, at this point, the only one.

- [Leticia] Dr.

Wilson, he served at a different time than you, but you still had that shared experience.

- Oh, absolutely.

I don't care what time you served, you still share that experience.

I just felt more comfortable talking to someone that I felt could identify with me.

- Mm hm.

So, how did you come to mental healthcare?

How did you come to getting therapy?

I would say someone your age probably would not be so open to it.

- And, you're right.

I wish I would've started 30 years ago.

You know, I would probably be in a much better place.

But, during that time, you know, you're a young man, a young African American man, and that's a stigma.

Why?

Because we think mental health is attributed to somethin' wrong with you.

The appearance is that you're weak.

Therapy helps you take those peels off and find out why we are, so that we can be a better person.

- My dad is 78.

He just started therapy in his 70s.

And, like you- - I'm 66.

I just started- - He wish he would've started sooner.

- In my early 60s, right?

- So, it's never too late.

- I don't think it is, right?

Because, why?

We're still alive, right?

We're on this side of the flowers.

Make the best of it!

How do you make the best of it?

You know, by seeking help.

And, the help is available.

Why let it go to waste, you know?

I mean, if life could be better, why not help it get better?

You know, if your relationships can get better, why not help them get better?

- That's a good point.

- You know?

I mean, you have that opportunity.

Absolutely.

You know, if you know you're angry, if you know you're mad, if you know that, you know, you hate people or you hate this and that, you know, and you have access to something that could help you navigate those areas, why not use it?

- [Leticia] After talking to Mr.

Penn, it's clear the progress [bright piano music] he's made will create positive ripples throughout his life and his grandson Adrian.

(bright piano music) - [Leticia] It's vital for all of us to show our younger generation their mental health is important and their feelings are valid.

Someone who knows that very well is recent "American Idol" winner and wellness advocate, Abi Carter.

♪ - [Leticia] What inspired you to speak out about mental health?

- Honestly, I think there's just such a big stigma around it.

And, I think that being in my position where I was even just two years ago, looking at people who had platforms in sort of the music business or in the acting business.

Anybody who was kind of put on like a "celebrity pedestal", I guess, it just seemed like their lives were so perfect, and they were much more polished human beings than us small folk were.

So, it felt kind of hard to relate.

So, when I got into the position of being "somebody" that might be considered in that crowd, it kind of felt important to me to remind people like me that it's okay to not be okay and everybody experiences those same kind of things.

- Now, you said one of the people that helped you to push you into therapy was your mom.

- That's true.

Yeah, it's true.

When I was in high school as a teenager, I kind of experienced a lot of-- I experienced depression and anxiety and my mom was going through very big life changes herself.

So, she decided to go into therapy.

And, I guess I was a topic of conversation (laughs) in her therapy office!

And, they kind of decided together that it might be positive for me to also go to therapy.

So, she came home one day and she was like, "Hey, I think it might-- I think you might benefit from this."

And, it was very helpful to have that support around me, to know that, like, my mom was pushing me for it rather than me having to convince my mom that I needed to go to therapy.

I actually grew up homeschooled, so I didn't quite have a lot of friends.

I didn't really have a counselor.

I didn't have those sort of resources to be able to talk to people through.

And, I had to, like, rely heavily on the people who were really close to me, the small amount of people that were really close to me, and to find resources through, like, my healthcare.

And, that was kind of helpful to get me on the track that I needed to be on.

- During this period, is this when you started to journal and put your thoughts down?

- A little bit.

I think at the time, my-- my songs were definitely much more juvenile than they are now, but it did kind of help me, help me just kind of pour myself in the music in general and learn how to be passionate about something.

And, that passion was very helpful in pulling me out of how I was feeling at the time because it felt like I had something to care about, I had something to channel all my energy into, rather than thinking about all the negative in life.

- [Leticia] I know that some people might be afraid to get mental health because there's misconceptions.

What is the biggest misconception in your opinion?

- I think that the biggest misconception throughout mental health might just be that there's "something wrong with you."

And, I would urge people to understand that there is nothing that is wrong with you if you are experiencing depression or anxiety or whatever it is that you might be feeling is impacting your mental health.

Going to "seek help" in that area doesn't mean that you're not strong enough.

It just means that you are strong enough to recognize what you need help in.

- We do hear a lot about social media and its impact on people of your generation.

- Absolutely.

- How do you feel that mental health and social media are kind of coming against each other?

- So, I think there's two sides of the coin.

I think that (laughs) my immediate reaction is that they are a terrible match and that social media can absolutely destroy somebody's perspective.

It makes it really easy to compare yourself to people who are only ever putting their best foot forward.

I mean, we have filters nowadays and we have effects on videos that can change how your body looks.

It can give you more of an hourglass figure.

It can make your lips fuller.

It can give you longer hair.

And, I think it destroys the image of what the average person is supposed to look like and how they're supposed to feel.

So, you're constantly striving for something, for your life to look a certain way when it's fake anyway, what people are putting forward.

So, there's that.

But then, there's the other side where I do think that because of social media and because of this outreach, things like mental health have started to become de-stigmatized because it gives everybody the ability to have a platform to be able to talk about it.

That being said, I would still say that (laughs) I hate social media!

(chuckles) - So, I wanted to ask you, you know, you're at this point where your career is taking off and you are getting a lot of notice and that comes with a lot of work, a lot of hard work.

- Mm hm.

- How are you dealing with it in your day-to-day life?

- [Abi] It's overwhelming, for sure.

It's definitely overwhelming to be in a new city every month, that, since I've come off the show, it's been almost a year now and I haven't gone a single month without having to fly somewhere.

I just try to make sure to have time to check in with myself, I guess.

I think I try to give myself days where the entire day, I do absolutely nothing.

I don't change out of my pajamas, and I just (laughs) rot on my couch!

And, for me, that's helpful for me.

And, it's not glamorous, but it's what-- it's what keeps me feeling okay at the end of the day.

- What would you say to someone who's looking at you and sees like, "Wow, you come from the Inland Empire."

You're just-- You know, and here you are following your dreams.

Like, "I want to do that, too."

And, how would you, whatever their dream is, how would you talk to this person if, say, they are dealing with some sort of depression or anxiety?

- You know, obviously I'm not gonna be the most qualified person to be able to talk to everybody on such a broad spectrum.

I would just urge them to keep looking forward rather than looking at where you're at.

Like, when you go into an interview, they say "Dress for the job you want, not the job that you have."

I think that it's important to kind of reframe your mindset, to try and be the person you want to be rather than maybe the person you feel like you are.

It's very easy to focus on everything bad that's happening.

It's very accessible to think about that nowadays.

And, I think that in doing so, it's often easy to forget all of the positive that you have in your life.

[bright piano music] - [Abi] I got to go home yesterday to my family and I just kind of-?

I sat in my backyard and I just, like, felt the sun and I, you know, sat in the shade and it was-- I just felt very grounded in the moment.

And, where I live, I live in LA now and it's never quiet.

And, you can't just go outside and lay on some grass, or something like that.

So, I think that it helped me a little bit to remember what I was grateful for.

- [Leticia] Well, I will say this.

It's been a pleasure speaking with you, and I really appreciate you coming on this program with us.

And, your mental health platform is gonna do so many good things out there.

- Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

♪ - Mental health isn't just about treating a crisis.

It's about caring for the whole self.

Carl Wilson reminds us it's not possible to be well all the time, which is why having someone to talk to matters.

And, Sylvia Samy says a therapist brings an objective point of view, helping us to see options we might miss.

The takeaway is clear.

Therapy isn't weakness; it's strength.

You don't have to be broken to seek help, and it's never too late to start.

[light uplifting music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - [Announcer] Support for this series comes from Inland Empire Health Plan, a health plan with a mission to heal and inspire the human spirit, serving over 1.5 million members in the Inland Empire.