.

>> Hi there.

Thank you so much for watching.

LIFE Ahead here on PBS Fort Wayne.

>> I'm Mark Evans, your host and another interesting topic of discussion tonight we're going to be talking about downsizing and aging and for a lot of the older folks, the senior citizens, they might have that on their mind.

We're going to talk about that.

We have two very special guests.

But first I want to let you know it's an interactive program and of course it's a program with vital information for adults of all ages.

The phone numbers will be on the screen from time to time and we have a way for you to call to be live on the air if you prefer.

And that's fine because we always like to talk to you or you can actually ask us to transcribe your question if you call the phone line.

Another neat way to contact us is through texting and that number will be on your screen as well.

Now when you text we'd appreciate if you at least give us your first name and the city from where you're calling because we always like to do a good old fashioned shout out to you.

So we'll do that as well.

And let's go ahead and meet our new guest for the show.

>> Actually you're not new.

You've been here for your time a few times, Mark and is Brian Nugent and you're an elder law attorney.

That's right.

It's great to have you on the program.

Thank you and thank you so much for your support.

>> Of course.

And then we have Caitlin who in your last name is Sandoval and you are a senior relocation specialist.

Yeah.

So perfect for this particular topic.

>> Absolutely.

And thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Before we get started, I did do a little research and I found out that according to Senior Living Dog that 51 percent of retirees aged 50 plus move into smaller homes after retirement and the motivations for downsizing of course you know this but I'm going to let our viewers know financial relief freeing up home equity, reducing mortgage and taxes and insurance and maintenance costs, lifestyle lifestyle simplification less upkeep, easier to manage as mobility declines accessibility moving to a single level or safer homes and I think that's a big one to proximity to family closer to children and grandchildren.

I've got a sister who is exactly doing that.

She's going to move to Arkansas after the holidays because of that and she lives right here in Indiana and health care access relocating near medical providers or care facilities and I know it could be an overwhelming process for some people.

So I'm going to ask you both get your take on this and I want to start with you, Caitlin.

>> Why do you think the idea of downsizing feels so overwhelming to some people?

Yeah, I mean I think the number one thing that I specifically hear all the time is that they just don't know where to start and just kind of what in you know, what am I going to take with me?

Where am I going to go and do I have enough money to sustain me where I'm going?

How much equity do I have in my home or my items?

What can I sell in and going through the process of getting rid of sentimental items can be very challenging for some individuals but ultimately just kind of not knowing where to start and we're going to talk about what to choose from and where to start just a few minutes with Brian.

>> What's your take on that?

I think for clients oftentimes folks are concerned with change.

Change is not an easy thing to accept or to deal with and the thought of as Caitlin was saying, can be a little bit of overwhelming.

I'm going to go from this but I've been in four years.

I've raised my children this home.

I've had good times in this home and so I think change is probably the biggest challenge if that's what was your question that folks are facing and they want to make a wise decision and a well informed decisions to surround themselves with folks that are able to assist them in making those decisions as they're going through that evolution in life ?

>> Yeah, that's that's some solid some of the signs that it may be time for someone to start thinking about downsizing or right sizing.

>> In other words, start with you.

I would say for the senior population oftentimes it's that the home is becoming more difficult for them to maintain.

>> So maybe they've been mowing the grass themselves in the past and now they're unable to maintain the lawns.

Perhaps they are being overwhelmed by needing to clean a home.

I see one of the issues that folks have is I want to age in place.

My bedroom is on the second floor perhaps the main bathroom is on the second floor.

So as we're aging and it may be a little bit trickier to ambulate, does it make sense for me to stay just two story home or a larger property?

>> Caitlin Oh, I would 100 percent agree with Brian ultimately and and to health health issues.

That's a number one reason why I might see somebody want to downsize is because of health health reasons or maybe they're with a spouse.

And I know for my grandparents my grandpa does a lot of the yard maintenance and exterior maintenance.

So if anything were to happen to him, you know, for my grandma that would be very hard for her to maintain the property.

So if something were to happen to him, she might be in a situation where she's forced to downsize.

>> Well, and then what's the yard to if you can't do it you'll either have to hire it out, depend on people, maybe neighbors or relatives to help you with that.

>> And a lot of people don't want to be burdened so they want to be independent and guide their own lives.

>> So let's talk about the mistakes here right off the bat.

One of the biggest mistakes you see people make when they begin the downsizing process I think for in the legal realm I think people sometimes make a decision too quickly after a loved one has passed.

They've had a serious event in their life and they haven't quite thought through the whole process.

So sometimes people maybe jump to making decisions about moving a little too quickly or they have a medical event and maybe they weren't planning in advance for the need to downsize and so all of a sudden that's thrust upon them so they don't have the opportunity to really think the process through and gosh do I like this new neighborhood or if I'm moving to a facility is this the right fit for me?

So I think an error would be maybe not planning in advance for an inevitable downsize or moving too quickly after an event has happened in life .

Maybe we've lost a loved one or we've had a sudden change in our health just and let the dust settle so to speak long enough Caitlin.

>> I mean very much similar to what Brian said as far as a quick rash decision, sometimes I feel like when somebody is thinking about downsizing oftentimes they think it's something that they're going to be able to tackle quickly and that's just not the way to approach it's best to be proactive instead of being a reactive situation especially to if you don't start early then what can happen is you are kind of putting those crisis situations as Brian was mentioning and we were talking about some people living in homes for years.

>> I mean we're talking twenty thirty forty fifty years maybe even more than that.

How do you recommend someone to even start approaching to sort out the stuff of a lifetime of belongings?

>> How do you do that?

Yeah, I mean I always tell people to start in the room that they're in the least sometimes that's very helpful.

Start with some larger items like furniture pieces because oftentimes you're going to know if you if you are planning on relocating what's actually going to fit into your new space furniture wise that might be a little bit easier because I if I have a really large house I don't need to dining table sets or I don't need to hutches so deciding what I'm going to take with me as far as furniture pieces that can sometimes be a little easier knickknacks and sentimental items can often be very hard to go through because you know if I have a I have a box of my child stuff that he started making in pre-K and I know it's silly.

You know, I don't go in and look at it all the time but it's it's very much it's a sentimental thing for me to collect and whenever individuals start going through those items they sometimes get analysis paralysis and they kind of get stuck or look through them for a long period of time.

Yeah, I can see that.

Well, let's talk about the sentimental items.

I mean is there an easy place to begin with that I never like to say there's an easy place to begin with but I would say to get with if you have loved ones close by that can kind of help guide you or just a support person to come in and help guide you on really what I need and love.

And I always use those two words because those are those are strong words to use instead of I want it that way.

It's an even seeing if your family members want those items as well.

If it's sentimental and you want it to stay in the family not necessarily that you want it but maybe see if a grandchild wants it.

I know that can be hard though sometimes because oftentimes kids grandkids don't want items.

We run into that all the time with our clients but it's very much a situation of just kind of taking it slowly.

It can be very challenging for certain individuals to give up sentimental items.

It can be very challenging and sometimes for collections for example we'll say like we had a gentleman that had over four hundred something Barbie dolls that his wife had collected and he was going to go ahead and sell those items and we had recommended maybe taking a photo of all of them and keeping maybe three because obviously that's going to take up less space then.

>> So I mean just creative ways, you know, as relocation specialists, downsizing specialists as you are, I'm sure you have ways to say it and and and kind gentle with yes.

All right.

We're going to break from this particular conversation and go to Texas coming in.

We'll go ahead and take a look at that.

It's from Dory.

It looks like Dory is from Fort Wayne .

I lost my husband a few years ago and at the suggestion of my kids I'm considering selling my home and purchasing a smaller one or even renting.

How does this affect my trust and do I face tax implications by doing this?

And Brian, you're the expert on that.

All right.

Great question during that.

So the idea with the trust is that there are all kinds of different trusts right there revokable an irrevocable trust.

But generally when we're talking about estate planning we're oftentimes talking about revocable trusts.

So if your home is in a trust and it's sold, you would sell it in the name of your trust.

So your trust is the one selling it, not you necessarily individually.

And then if you're buying a replacement property you would buy the replacement property, the smaller home in the name of the trust as well.

So it doesn't affect your estate planning whatsoever.

We want to leave it in that trust.

You also ask a question, Doree ,regarding tax if I'm not mistaken that is there any type of a tax consequence right.

So if you're selling your homestead, even if it is in a trust, assuming it's a grantor trust meaning you pay the tax on that you have credits that you get.

So we I paid one hundred dollars for the home.

The property is let's say one hundred thousand dollars for the home.

The property is now worth three hundred and fifty so people are sometimes concerned the difference between the one hundred thousand and the three hundred and fifty thousand am I going to pay tax on that capital gains tax on that.

But every individual has two hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of credits so if you sell that home Doree for your basis what you paid for it originally plus two hundred and fifty thousand dollars or less capital gains tax so long as that your primary residence and you've lived there too over the past five years so and if you're married and you're selling it, each of you has credits of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars so that's five hundred thousand dollars of gain that we could recognize before having to pay any tax.

So the trust itself wouldn't impact a tax that you may pay if you're buying a replacement property you would be hit by it in the name of your trust.

>> All right.

Very well said.

Thank you.

And if you're joining us just now we're talking to Brian Nugent, an elder law attorney and Caitlin Sandoval who is a senior relocation specialist and we're talking about downsizer and aging.

And I want to ask you I personally have handed down antiques that I'm the keeper of and I don't know if I'm going to be able to keep them, you know, for the rest of my life I'm going to try to distribute them to people I know in my family who would want them.

But what about families knowing the value of collectibles and antiques and furniture and so forth and other personal property?

Are there items people commonly think are worth more or less than they actually are?

>> Absolutely yes.

Yes, absolutely.

Unfortunately.

I mean I say when it's when it's your items it's easy to say, you know, my items have more value or I spend this much on these things so it must be worth X amount and I always say just because an item is old or antique or at one point had high value doesn't mean it's going to keep, you know, growing in value.

I know that there's Hummels long and Longaberger baskets things Beanie Babies, Beanie Babies and I unless it's something I've seen of course like on eBay maybe like a Beanie Baby that was like a really rare one being listed for X amount of dollars that I always say, you know, really looking at fortunately today, you know, the Internet the way that it is you are able to go online and kind of do research on seeing what items are selling for not what they're listed for but what they're selling for .

Yes, because I always say, you know what an external factors do come into play to you know, what's inflation like?

How much are the cost of groceries and gas because if you're thinking about selling your item and you're hoping to get a high dollar for it but it's not really a necessity, you know, and buyers aren't really making a lot at that moment in time you're going to have less buyers willing to purchase your items .

>> So you know, there's just many factors that come into play.

Yeah, especially with Beanie Babies if they're not worth anything, give me your great grandkids.

I've seen Longaberger baskets in garages that just have cobwebs all over them and I've seen other ones that are in really good shape Hummels.

I've seen them go pretty well before.

>> Precious moments really do not go too well.

They used to they used to no not anymore.

That's very interesting.

You got to keep your finger on the pulse of the value.

Yes, right.

Brian, let's switch gears here for a second.

What should seniors consider in regard to their personal affairs and estate planning?

Both before and during the downsizing process?

>> Well, number one, they're moving to a different state of course they might want to speak with counsel in the different state that they're moving to to make sure that their base documents are appropriate for that state.

I'd like to see people change their durable powers of attorney health care, representative designations, authorizations those those types of core documents if they're moving to a different state there will may or may not need to be updated if they move out of the state, their trust may or may not need to be updated.

The states recognize what happened so Indiana would recognize well what was drafted in the state of Ohio, for example.

So even if you move from one state to another it would still be in effect.

I think that when folks are moving they should consider updating their documents to make sure their address is correct.

Some very basic information, make sure that they're with their financial adviser, with the bank that they're working with that they're aware of their their new address and have their contact information, their health care providers also to make sure that they're aware of their new address, their new contact information so no one drops a bit right after they've downsized.

They may reconsider how they've distributed their wealth and their estate planning.

So perhaps they've given away those Longaberger baskets.

Perhaps they've given away some of those family mementos so they might want to rethink how they've distributed personal property and it's a good time when you're moving not only to to downsize and make life a little bit more simple may be to review your estate plan to make sure that it's still appropriate and it's addressing things that you want to have addressed.

Yeah.

As you're aging we also start thinking about how can I protect assets as I'm aging and if I have a health a change in my health circumstance, how do I protect my assets?

So I think it's a good idea to revisit what you have in place if some preplanning could take place so that you have protected assets should your health declines unique care in the home go to an extended stay at a facility that you're appropriately situated so where you're able to protect your assets and secure benefits if you're eligible for those so when it comes to downsizing, is that a good time for people to start making gifts of larger assets?

>> I I encourage folks when they're doing their estate planning instead of waiting to have those things distributed at the time of your passing if you are no longer enjoying it or it's been sitting in a closet or sitting in a cupboard for an extended period of time, make those gifts now Caitlin was referencing the value of assets and how folks I have an impression of what the value is then we go to sell it.

It doesn't have that same value.

I will say an estates that I have seen over time we don't have those large estate sales like we once did.

I don't see those bringing in a lot of money to the estate when you have estate sales that really has changed.

So I always encourage folks if you're not enjoying it right now, go ahead and make the gift, allow your children to enjoy it, your grandchildren to enjoy a charity to enjoy it, make the donation, get the tax write off for that donation for sure.

So without a doubt I love to see people give things away during their lifetime.

>> Oh, that's great.

Yeah.

Caitlin, the options for someone who has belongings and really doesn't plan to take them with them, what do we do with the stuff?

So I mean ultimately I always tell people there you only have a handful of options of what to do with the stuff.

You can either discard it all and nobody likes to do that.

They want items to be utilized and items that they especially enjoyed.

They want maybe somebody else to enjoy as well.

So you have the option doing that.

You also have the option of donating.

We encourage people to donate all the time, especially if we know it's not going to bring value to them you know, like clothing for example that just doesn't have any value to it unless maybe it's hunting gear or something like that, you know, or like popular brands or real furs maybe that could sell.

But as far as donating that's a big option and then obviously if family doesn't want it selling the rest, you know, those are really their options .

>> Well, how do you you work around with family members who are helping a parent or a loved one to downsize without making them feel, you know, pressured or make decisions that are being made for them?

>> How do you get around that?

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's very much just a matter of having conversations but then reiterating to our clients that they very much are in control.

These are not decisions that we're making for them.

Our job is just to be there to guide them and give them advice along the way of , you know, how what would be best moving forward for them.

The ultimately you know, we're not that individual.

>> They're going to know what's best for them at the end of the day.

Sure.

Brian, let me start you with this question.

What are some of the things people often forget to plan for besides simply selling the house?

>> I think when they're looking for their replacement property ,are they thinking ahead if they want to age in place?

Does this property make sense for them?

Do I have a roll in shower?

Do I have wide doorways?

Am I able to put grab bars and so they're not necessarily they're thinking strictly with downsizing they may not be thinking about if I want to age in place when I'm looking at a new home is that the appropriate place for me so I can live out the remainder of my life as long as it makes sense for me to be there?

I think that sometimes people forget about the walkability of a neighborhood if they want to get out as their aging.

Is this a comfortable environment to be in?

So there's more to it that we're looking at when we're downsizing, when elderly attorneys are speaking with their clients about things to think about than just cutting your overhead and there's a lot more that goes into it.

As Caitlin was saying earlier, downsizing is a lot of work.

It doesn't happen quickly so you don't want to make that change more than what so really think that through and make sure that you're making an appropriate decision for you and where you are in life and would you like to chime in on that now?

>> I mean I agree one hundred percent with what Brian was saying.

So I mean and again and not tackling it all like you're going to you know, it's going to happen and know a week or something and then also yes.

Keeping in mind where you're where you're going and aging in place we get asked that all the time.

So if I move in here, you know is and then I need more assistance, you know, if something happens and I can no longer be independent, where do I go next?

Am I going to have to do another move?

>> How far is that move?

People moving to the I want to be at the lake.

I'm going to live at the lake but the lake is in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah.

Can you really get attendance to come into the home and provide care for you as you're aging?

>> That's a challenge.

Yeah, that's a good point.

That's a good point.

So I've always wanted to get the lake house.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how close are you to the hospital?

That's a very big thing to you know, making sure that you are close to hospitals.

I have a great aunt great uncle that moved here from California.

They want to be close to a hospital.

So you know, it's it's very much keeping all those things in mind.

>> And what about the people in fact, I've got a relative right now that we're dealing with this.

They just don't want to leave.

They'd rather have somebody move in to help them.

Unfortunately there's no family member able to do that.

>> So there's they're sitting on the fence about this whole thing.

How do you get somebody motivated to finally get the process started and where do you start I mean as far as ultimately sitting down with them and going over possibly some benefits to to downsizing going over benefits would help them kind of see the positives of possibly doing it rather than thinking of all the negative connotations that come along with downsizing.

>> You know, I'm leaving my family home.

I'm leaving a home that I have many memories and that's it's very hard, very hard.

I have grandparents who are both in their family homes and they tell me all the time how they're going to pass away in their homes and it's a lovely thought.

It really is.

But majority of the time I'm sure as Brian says, that's not what happens.

>> No, especially if you don't have that support system close by that can make it happen for you.

>> True.

That's very, very true.

And Brian, to chime in, I think that first of all really is Kaitlyn's referencing the individual that's that we're having a conversation with.

We want to respect them and respect their decision making and meet them where they are and have an honest discussion with them and find out perhaps in the family who is it that maybe holds sway with that individual so that they can have a conversation you reference Mark, you have a family member that wants to bring care into the home, right?

Care in the home.

Everyone wants care in the home.

Everyone wants to be able to remain there with care.

It's a very expensive it is so if you don't have someone volunteering you might have a discussion just nuts and bolts discussion.

What does that look like cost wise and how is it that you're going to be able to pay for that care if you really are looking to remain in your home and you and you don't have the resources or you're concerned about going through your resources to provide that care for yourself in the home someone should consider how is it that I'm going to pay for that?

What do I need how do I need to structure my assets now?

How do I need to structure things now so that in the future if I want care in the home I'm able to afford that without running out of money so that really can age in place.

So there's much more to it than getting rid of the Hummels or just doing this or doing oh yeah there's a lot that goes into that conversation well and hinging on that Caitlin, I want to ask you what's something you wish more families talked about before the downsizing situation became urgent?

Urgent I mean just having that like planning you know, just having the tough conversations early on I feel like a lot of it's uncomfortable.

You know, I feel like a lot of times those conversations really only come up whenever it's around, you know, holiday seasons and kids are around and they're seeing mom, dad maybe aren't remembering things the way that they once did or they're seeing a decline in health and so then they feel like the need for conversations, you know, needs to happen at that point about you, what do they need?

However, I always say, you know, you want to have those conversations when somebody is in a good spot because then at that point it's it's not as pressuring to talk about your wants and needs because it seems a little bit more distant rather than like this is going to happen to me and and I have to do this, you know.

So just having early conversations about what their wants and desires are if I could tag yeah.

>> I think what a gift a parent a grandparent is giving their children grandchildren by having that conversation early and letting them know what they want for is an emergency exam.

>> It really is a gift to them so that when someone has an attitude oh they'll handle that or somebody else will take care of that for me.

Well that's definitely appreciate you being on the show.

Great information, Kaitlyn.

Thank you.

Great job tonight and hope to have you back again.

And we hope to see you again next Wednesday night again you can watch this show and others on YouTube and our website at PBS for wait until then good night.

Thanks for watching